DETA Smart Switch Mechanism for 3 way switch?

Thank you for sharing that question about the DETA smart switch. I've just been in contact with DETA's technical department and they've informed me that it should work in that scenario where there are two switches at either end of the hall. But in the interest of safety, I always recommend getting a registered electrician to install it.

Here is a link to DETA's automation guide: Multi-way switching via automation.

If you need further assistance, please let us know.

Eric

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/20401#Comment_20401

Had an electrician come and try this but they couldn't figure it out. Apparently the wiring diagrams in the instructions are pretty poor. Does Deta have a wiring diagram for 3 way switching?

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/73431#Comment_73431

Hello @n860cr

Thanks for sharing that question about the three-way switch. Would you mind posting a picture of the wiring diagram instructions that you have? It will give our members a chance to have a look and assess it. I'll also be contacting DETA to see if they have any other diagrams for the Smart Switch Mechanism. As soon as I have more information, I'll let you know.

Eric

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/100153#Comment_100153

Thanks Eric. That’s all that comes with the switch. It’s fairly limited in detail.

Jason

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/116919#Comment_116919

Are you able to assist with this one @CSParnell?

Jason

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/126562#Comment_126562

It is correct that the Deta 1 to 6 gang switches cannot be used as 3 way (intermediate), I have not had the ability to install and test the Deta switch mechanism to see how the software side can be operated but in terms of standard switching a 2 way switch requires 3 wires and a 3 way switch (intermediate) requires 4 wires so with the switch mech only having the ability for 2 wire connection it makes me think any switching for a 3 way would come down to software automation.

I will see what I can find.

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/133015#Comment_133015

Hey @n860cr

As my train of thought it is confirmed by the following video for another product but it will be the same.

Skip ahead to 10min for the automation example.

https://youtu.be/W2pcYp2pPWA

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/116919#Comment_116919

Would it be possible for you to post a photo of the wall switch you are replacing or connecting to? Can I also ask for a photo of the hallway to give our members a better idea of the setup you are trying to accomplish?

Let me call on our experienced member @MikeTNZ for his recommendation.

Eric

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/116919#Comment_116919

Hello @n860cr

I've been in contact with the DETA technical department and I'm so sorry, but they only provide the basic wiring diagram in the booklet that you have.

Eric

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/126566#Comment_126566

literally just one of those at each end.

it does seem they’re probably not three way comparable. Automation could do it… there would need to be a way to power just one switch without it actually operating a circuit (it you can press the button to trigger a scene but the actual switch does nothing). Could then just rewire one end of the hall to operate as a regular switch and then use the other to trigger scene “switch a on/off”

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/133018#Comment_133018

Your electrician could use the existing wires give each switch the required active and continue the switch wire wire through to each position, because they do not require a neutral these would be ideal for this and then it comes down to automation.

If wifi goes down it is possible to switch via switch 1 and switch 2 or switch 1 and switch 3 if switch 2 is on position or switch 2 and switch 3 if switch 1 is on position. So you would have 2 way switch only with wifi off due to the fact you don't have an intermediate.

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/133018#Comment_133018

I'm sorry @n860cr this makes me cringe HPM switch mechs used on Clipsal or Deta face plates they nothing wrong with it besides the edges catch a bit but it just looks wrong for this OCD sparky 😉

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/136982#Comment_136982

Thanks. If they only need an active then yes that’s a good plan. Automation would be fine. The second switch isn’t super critical so for the few times the WiFi is down I can drag myself to the other end of the hallway.

And yes, I know. It was a temporary replacement when it broke!

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/139711#Comment_139711

How did you go with this @n860cr ? I have a 3 gang smart switch now so if you need any help with the 3 way automation sing out and I'll see what I can do.

If you have it running do you mind posting the automation chain up so I can copy it across into the tips and tricks thread.

Carl

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/141584#Comment_141584

No luck unfortunately. Electrician spent a fair bit of time playing with combinations but there was no way to keep the switch powered. The two didn’t play ball with each other (as expected), however he couldn’t make the “WiFi only” switch stay powered.

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/142991#Comment_142991

Bugger that's a shame, it's hard for me to replicate that without having the exact switches, I can replicate the automations but that's no good if the switches don't work in the first place.

But he is probably on the ball now I think again, you have your feed one end on the 3 way, your intermediate in the middle and the switching the other end you can get constant feed on the feed end, but to get constant feed to the other 2 you would have to carry the power as a constant all the way through meaning only the last switch would be a static switch and the switch 1 and 2 would be wifi. If your going to that trouble leave the switches as standard and put 2 motion detectors in each end, and Smart bulbs and leave the switches on.

Fantastic little motion sensors.

Screenshot_20220809-155955_Bunnings Product Finder.jpg

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/143969#Comment_143969

Hi @CSParnell

That is indeed a shame, I was hoping that the smart powered 3-way switch would solve the problem. Hopefully, the smart motion sensor will sort out the automation issue.

Eric

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/144732#Comment_144732

Hi @EricL it would with constant power to all switches, I'd love to get hold of some to work through these issues.

Just a note on terms here,

Down under, we call lighting circuits either 1 way (for a single switch point), 2 way for say opposite ends of a hallway, after that it is called 2 way + Intermediate, you can have any number of Intermediate switches between the start and end switches, but you wouldn't call it 5 way switching if you had 2 way switching and 3 Intermediates.

Americans call our 2-way switching 3-way switching, which it isn't, because either switch is only on or off.

Depending on how the wiring is configured, and there a LOT of ways to effect the same thing, the Intermediate switch ALWAYS swaps over the two strap or traveller wires between the two end switches.

The Intermediate switch itself is known in the trade as a Double pole Changeover switch.

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/21841#Comment_21841

I have never heard a Intermediate refered to a change over switch this is typically reserved to a din mount change over or IP66 switch or intergrated into switchboards for commercial or larger, maybe its another state thing intermediate is an intermediate in any wholesalers I've ever walked into.

Wait,

You say you don't need a neutral conductor?, so how is this wired to the lamp(s)?

You have to have a Neutral to take the current back to the supply otherwise it will not work.

Or are you talking about an Earth conductor?

As in a Black neutral wire, as opposed to a Green/Yellow Earth conductor.

Could you please clarify what you mean?

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/73660#Comment_73660

OK,

Are you an Electrician?

What the Intermediate switch does with the switch toggle up, the two straps continue through as they are normally wired.

When the switch is flipped down, the contacts swap from A1 to B2 and A2 to B1, effectively transposing the two straps.

This turns the light on and off from that point.

Like I said, you can have any number of these switches between the start and end switches.

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/100289#Comment_100289

Yes I am Mike of many years and many fields of experience and I'll think I'll kindly leave this conversation here, appreciate the chat.

Carl

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/73660#Comment_73660

Just so you know,

This is a double pole change-over switch, not a single pole type, which would not effect the correct switching.

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/116989#Comment_116989

Gave up on the Deta switches in the end and returned them. Real shame there's not a Grid Connect compatible switch for this setup (which I think would be very common in Australian homes). Wasn't a total loss for Bunnings as I picked up another smart switch for the newer part of the house (where there is a neutral wire). So much easier!

For the hallway, I've gone with a setup from SAL Pixie (https://www.sal.net.au/products/smart-controls-and-electrical-accessories/smart-lighting-controls/SWL350BT_G2) with its matching multi-function switch. Straight swap from the existing setup (took the electrician about 2 minutes) and the two switches pair via bluetooth. Basically does exactly what I wanted the Deta ones to do (one is the actual switch, the other just triggers it using a "scene"). Only annoyance is that they need a $400 gateway to work with Google. Haven't bothered with the gateway as I basically just wanted to be able to set a daily schedule (which they can do via bluetooth) so it's good enough. Unless I end up replacing more in the house......

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/126619#Comment_126619

Nice @n860cr great that you have it sorted how you need it and that's the main thing.

benjoesteban

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/136977#Comment_136977

That explains all.. very informative…👌👌👌 #gotcha #excellent #bravo #winner #dummyswitchthatworks

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/126619#Comment_126619

Many thanks for the update. I'm glad to hear that you got your hallway lighting issue sorted out.

Eric

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/126565#Comment_126565

Thanks @EricL ,

Are we getting confused here in terms?

Americans (which most YouTube videos are about this sort of thing) call what we call a 2 way lighting circuit, a 3 way lighting circuit.

Us Down-Under call a lighting circuit that has a switch at two ends of a hallway a 2 way lighting circuit.

If it has an Intermediate switch in the middle somewhere, it is known as a 2 way + Intermediate circuit, not a 3 way circuit.

Is there somewhere where I could draw these diagrams out, to show people, not how they should be wired, that would invite folks to do

illegal electrical work, but to explain how the wiring works, to save some confusion here.

Your thoughts?