Hi
Looking for some assistance here to understand how to build a garden bed by using cinder blocks.
Whats the best way stick cinder blocks on top of cinder blocks? Using landscaping liquid nail or proper cement?
Hello @AJ-DIYer
Thank you for sharing your question about building a cinder block garden wall. I suggest having a quick look at this discussion - Advice needed to lay brick-raised flower bed by @Brunnie_Rich. Although the discussion is referring to bricks, the techniques and principles used to lay them down are all applicable to cinder blocks.
A solid foundation is essential when laying down cinderblocks. Failure to put a proper base in will cause the block wall to lean crack and eventually fall. My number one piece of advice before you begin is to compact the soil with a plate compactor. This will prevent the soil from subsiding and give you piece of mind that your foundation will not sink into the soil.
I suggest using mortar to join the cinder blocks together as it will cover more area when compared to landscaping liquid nails.
Here are some handy step-by-step guides:
If you need further assistance, please let us know.
Eric
Thanks 😊
How can I render the wall made of cinder blocks? Which rendering material and process should I follow to create that look we see with the brick fence on front of the display homes?
Another question I have is whether I should use cinder blocks or bricks to build a garden bed with bench attached to it.
Something like below:
https://youtu.be/QiYO_1r7ICc
Would it be possible for you to post a photo of the render you are referring to? Is it the one on the video link you posted? The general steps to rendering brick or cinder block walls are the same. The surface must be free of dirt and debris. It is recommended that a primer be used on the surface of the wall to provide an ideal bonding surface for the render. Once the primer cures, you can then apply the render to the wall.
Here are some handy step-by-step guides.
In regards to your question about which material you should use, I suggest using cinder blocks if you are attaching a bench to it. However, please note that the gaps inside the cinder blocks must be filled with builder's mix and the wall reinforced with a reinforcing bar. In the interest of safety, I suggest engaging the services of an engineer and asking them about the viability of anchoring a bench seat onto your cinder block wall. If the load on the wall exceeds its tolerance, the chair will buckle and the wall will collapse. I suggest building a floor-standing seat so that there is no load on the wall.
Hi @AJ-DIYer
I just finished a 2 row besser or cinder garden wall. You want to go 3 bricks Height thats 600 ml, It really sounds like your retaining earth ie a retaining wall which will need a solid foundation like @EricL said. Your local council will have some minimum specifications too. But 600 mm height should be under planning approval height, I meantion this so you can build a great wall lol no one can question later on.
If you want that to be a forever wall I highly recommend a bare minimum of a 300x 300 square cement footing with trench steel along the entire length. I also recommend an agriculture pipe to drain water build up bedded in crushed 20 blue metal rocks behind the wall if you know water collects in that area. Once you have that footing 300 x300 the wall will be a breeze to make with two pegs and a taunt string line . And please use mortar mix it wont take you long to get he hang of it. make sure you use waterproof gloves as cement will dry your hands out touching it. I used liquide nails in the garden gluing loose bricks in after a bumping them loose it seams to fail in two years and this surprised me.
I think EricL meantioned you can fill the insides of the besser/ cinder blocks(Cement sand or soil) and that makes them near indestructable
I love working with the 390 x 190 blocks as they are easy to build with and the naturally are stable even uncemented when you lay them over lapped like brick,
If you want to try no cement foundation well that is possible but movment may occur at later time.
Scrape out flat dirt base and simply water for a couple days and earth will settle fast enough (dont use sand here) Go for it lay your cinder blocks and pack them in a little dirt and water it the added dirt will find hollows and lock the blocks it tighter and wash underneath fillin any viods. and there is the option of earth filling thr bricks. Ilke doing this as it add thremal insulation to plant roots from a hot sun.
Note the cement footings
Thanks @Jewelleryrescue and @EricL
Your responses are very helpful.
Just a couple of points that I am trying to understand better:
1. Any suggestions or examples of how I can build a floor standing seat so that I dont use the garden wall to hold the seat?
2. If the council regulations say maximum 600 cm for garden wall, then the maximum number of rows I can use with 190 × 390 block would be just 3 rows. Is this info about the height specified on the council website?
I suggest having a good look at these amazing seat projects shared by our Workshop members:
In relation to the garden wall height, if the rules in your area say a maximum height of 600cm is only allowed, that's pretty much how high you can go. Can you please confirm if it is in centimetres or millimetres as 600cm is six meters? However, if you wish to go past that height, it might be necessary to get a permit or submit an engineering plan for approval.
Firstly i hope I didnt disturb you too much mentioning council red tape. Sorry if it did.
But You can build any size what ever you want in you back yard including a wall any height with planning and council approval. they will say yeah or nay. But under a certain height they dont want to know about it. Your garden wall holding dirt under their height limit will be good to go.
But each different council will have there own building rule guides for the region your in. As a garden wall is holding back tonnes of earth and adding water to that could kill someone if not done right and it collapses. So type in retaining wall and your council name "eg retaining walls parramatta council regulations" into google you should some reading from your council too guide you.
In my council area if a wall holding dirt back and is 60cm tall it is a retaining wall and needs approval. if its 59cm it is not deamed a retaining wall, just a wall so 59 cm is out of their rules. But it would be wise to read the rules for 60 cm walls FYI just in case.
So your planned wall is 3 blocks height 3x190 is 6oomm (including 3x 10 mm mortar layer.) If you add capping stone thats an extra 40 mm + 10mm mortar so 650mm . Simple solution lower the wall into the ground by 60mm or use one layer halve height cinder/besser blocks 95mm x 390x 190 block.
A mortor joined cinder wall sitting on footings will support brackets to mount seats on to. Or make your wall and make cinder peirs(stack) to sit timber seating on top of separate to wall
There are a few examples of besser and timber seats other project people have made that may appeal to your garden.
Thank you @EricL and @Jewelleryrescue
All the information will. Be helpful in my plan.
What sort of mortar can i use between cinder blocks?
When rendering the wall of cinder blocks, what's the best rendering concrete I can use?
How can I screw merbau used as a bench to cinder block?
Probably the most useful product you can use would be
This has the right portions of Sand cement and lime for your job and saves you having to source those materials separately This mix will also allow you to render the wall later by adding what ever coloured oxide for wall color thats avaliable Search Bunnings for oxides to see colors. You just need to add water to the above in a wheel barrow and mix it to a toothpaste like consistance apply it with a trowel on top of the footing or new bricks use a string line and level to make sure bricks are level with string and vertical at the sides. You are aiming at approx 5-10mm mortar spacing. Be consistant.
A small lump hammer or regular nail hammer(at a pinch) will help tap the bricks slowly and gently to level and straight . If you go past level and straight take brick out and start again. I am sure there will be some youtube or on Bunning how to lay bricks. Do wear gloves or you will burn your finger prints off like me. lol Hands toughen up over time with frequent use and roughness of bricks.
Tip: wet down your bricks before use them keep then moist it helps cement bond better. One bag of mortar will probably do 5M to 10M depending on you mortar thinkness. But get more mortar than you need and take unused back or use for rendering next step.
Very big tip: get a bucket of water and a dust pan brush and go back to the start of todays brick work and clean any mortar of the brick faces (lightly on mortar joints) finish clean off with a fine water misting , The hose water will cause some mortar dribbles to come out a little is ok dont rewash.it will save so much effort cleaning the wall afterwards.
Next day or week use a house brick as a sander along the wall to knock down any extra mortar outside on the brick faces or on top.
No body but skilled brick layers gets this perfect first time.
If you wall is little wonky first time efforts hay that is no dramas Garden walls are not meant to be dead strait just call you wall organic shape. Your garden wall isnt a critical structure so will take a little wonky ness My wall was out 2 mm a dip in the middle due to blade of grass on string line i didnt see until to late. That will stay in the wall for 1000 years lol I see dip no one else does.
What Cement would you use well any GP general purpose, It might be worth noting there is two different coloured cements one off white and the other grey. but if your rendering over the top get gray its cheaper.
A final tip: if your are not going to make a cement footing 300 x 300 mm then at lease buy lengths of trench mesh and put them under the bricks first row it will help then not sink and sage over time. Over lap lenghts as required keep them long as possible to evenly distribute wall wieght.
Just to add another option to your list, you can also use Dunlop 20kg Multipurpose Acrylic Render. This is a ready-to-use product and will approximately cover an area of 6.5 meters. There is also Australian Builders 20kg Type GB Cement, which can be used as a binder in concrete, concrete masonry, mortar and grouts.
I suggest waiting for your render to cure before you decide on drilling into the cinder block. I suggest using Ramset 8 x 40mm Anchor RamPlug in combination with Zenith 10G x 75mm Galvanised Countersunk Head Timber Screws. Please keep in mind that this is to mount the timber onto the cinder block. It will not be able to hold any weight if built into a horizontal frame.
Hi @EricL
I had look at the videos you shared, he used two rendering cement One for the first
And the other for the top coat. Is there something that I can get which can be used as both the first and final coat these days? As I noticed the videos are quite old.
It is possible to bring the first rendered finish to a better quality by using the sponge and adding a little water. At the moment I'm not aware of an all-in-one product that is both render and top coat. It is recommended that the top coat be applied to the first render to make it easier to paint.
Thanks @EricL
Do you mind to tell me which of the latest product can be used for the first and top coat?
I suggest having a look at the Dunlop 20kg Multipurpose Acrylic Render and the Dunlop 20kg Fine Coat Render. Please keep in mind that it is critical that the wall be very clean and free of loose debris so that render will have a stable surface to anchor to.
Hi @AJ-DIYer and @EricL
Why not use cementous paint which is a binder to cement and brick work of any type it can be brushed on and thinner than render and you can add oxides too it it will gives brick work a painted finish that is strong fills any gaps and makes it waterproof and has a final color that will last the life span of the brick wall. The wall needs to be moist to apply it. Naturally two coats of this is best for consistency like in any paint the trick here is to use a straw brush a paint brush bristles to soft. Easy pezy
