I have an old concrete slab for my outdoor patio that I want to renovate. The slab is level but cracked in a few places. I was thinking of Travertine but then thought maybe this would look ok https://www.bunnings.com.au/brighton-masonry-300-x-300-x-40mm-sand-mypave-paver_p3451558 with the advantage of easily fixable if I mess up because I can just pop in to Bunnings for more. My questions are:
Do you think it will look ok? I had in mind this colour scheme https://www.berger.com.au/inspiration/a-modern-patio-that-shines/?fbclid=IwAR1hfZrxWpG-xLVdlLMh8DO0JGw5l4RIe_VVAkKefBv6YF5jW4UocbaGutw (my patio is very old fashioned with round columns everywhere)
What would I use to lay the pavers?
What would I use as edging
Hi @lakiita,
I think the pavers would certainly look OK, but there might also be other options to consider. Bear in mind that those styles of pavers are typically designed to be bedded onto sand in the garden. For a more high-end finish, I'd recommend you go for a natural stone paver. If you wanted something more budget-friendly than travertine but still with a natural look, you could go for Outdoor Paver 60 x 60 x 2cm Porcelain Sabbia. Those would cost a very similar amount to the 40mm thick pavers and, in my opinion, would offer a far superior look.
These thinner pavers are laid similarly to tiles, so this step-by-step guide will be useful: How to lay floor tiles.
Please let me know if you have any questions.
Mitchell
Hi @MitchellMc
Thanks for your reply. Actually I was looking at those pavers as well because I did like the look of them but then the advantage of the concrete paver is the ability to get more if I mess up - I am very nervous about making mistakes as I think it will be very hard cutting the pavers to go around my columns. I have never tiled anything before and am not great with straight lines at the best of times.
My Dad seemed to think the pavers would be ok on top of concrete??
If I used the concrete pavers how would you lay it on top of concrete? My Dad thought cement in the border, sand fill between pavers with sand and seal - your thoughts on this?
If I used the Porcelain Sabbia instead how would I lay that on top of concrete?
I have annual leave in October and this is going to be my project so I want to decide so I can have all my materials ordered ready for some home reno fun. Have my Besser Block Bench all ready for assembly once the pavers are layed 🙂
Also this is not for resale value just for my own joy 🙂
What tool would you recommend for paver/ tile cutting?
Hello @lakiita
If you were to use the Outdoor Paver 60 x 60 x 2cm Porcelain Sabbia, I propose fixing it permanently into place using Dunlop 15kg Floorfix Tile Adhesive. However, using Brighton Masonry 300 x 300 x 50mm Sand Mypave Paver will require a sand base as my friend mentioned. Technically you would need a frame of sorts to keep the sand in place and prevent it from sliding out from under the paver.
In order to cut the tile, I suggest hiring the Electric Tile Saw Table. The paver can be cut using a grinder with a masonry blade.
If you have any other questions we can help with, please let us know.
Eric
Ok I have decided the Porcelain paver is too big my house has a lot of movement and I think tiles that large would probably crack and end up looking dodgy. Pavers will still crack but won't look as bad I don't think. So now I just have to figure out how to do it - what do you use for the edges? One of the online tutorials I just looked at recommended putting 'geo filter fabric' on the bottom, then sand, then paver.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oq3c7ZaZacA&t=345s
Is this an ok tutorial do you think?
Pavers won't crack as they are not glued down and float on a bed of sand.
You could put Geo-fabric down, but you'll note that in the tutorial, they have an edging course of pavers in place; perhaps they glued them down.
Is this an elevated slab, and how high are the edges? Perhaps you could show us an image of them.
I think in the tutorial they mortared the edging pavers in place
My slab isn't elevated it's about 120mm lower than my house floor and it's approx 200mm thick (I think) I thought maybe I'd mortar the final row of tiles but not sure how to finish it. Not sure if the pics will help - excuse my messy floor
Lower than floorEdgeEdge of slabMore views of edge
Sounds like fixing the final row in position would be a good option and should help contain the internal pavers @lakiita. The face edges of the slab could be covered with timber or painted in a similar colour to the pavers.
oooh covering with timber is a nice idea - would that then also give me a frame to contain the bedding sand etc? How would I attach the timber to the cement? Actually it just occurred to me that if I do my edge first, mortar it in and have the height to cover the edge plus match the top of where my pavers would be that would then give me a frame to contain the bedding sand
Do I have the right idea? Maybe then I should consider a brick/ paved edging or timber but how would I attach the timber if I used timber? If I am using the cheap sand coloured pavers and the colours of my patio that I'm planning are this
https://www.berger.com.au/inspiration/a-modern-patio-that-shines/?fbclid=IwAR1hfZrxWpG-xLVdlLMh8DO0JGw5l4RIe_VVAkKefBv6YF5jW4UocbaGutw
do you think a grey trim paver would look nice or should I aim for the something that blends instead of contrast
I can't believe how many things I have to decide on. I really appreciate the continued advise
Do you think if I did the edge first............fixed in place. Followed by leading edge mortared in place - then did the rest with sand bedding etc How do I stop the sand bedded pavers being a different height to the mortar bedded?
The timber trim piece can be Dynabolted into the edge of the concrete slab @lakiita.
I think you are on the right path. Install the timber trim, bed the perimeter pavers with mortar, and lay the rest on sand. To have the border level with the internal pavers, it will just be a matter of adding enough sand to suit the thickness of the mortar bed. With a little trial and error, you should be able to get the levels correct.
Adding a grey trim paver would add a nice contrast, but it's up to you on the look you're going for.
I think I'm getting there at last!!
Think I best paint the patio first so I don't have to worry about paint spills too much. Should I use any kind of special cleaner before I start the paving or will just a pressure hose down be sufficient do you think? Unfortuantely my area is very dusty so it will probably be hard to keep it clean for long.
I think I will go to Bunnings tomorrow (My Saturday I'm a shift worker) and buy a couple of 'test' pavers so I can look at timber vs grey edge and take the pavers home to check out height etc and decide what I like the look of
Would this work as edging???
https://www.bunnings.com.au/brighton-masonry-230-x-110-x-80mm-charcoal-garden-edge_p3041549
A good clean with a pressure hose, concentrating on the perimeter where you'll be using mortar, will be all that's required @lakiita.
Those edging pavers should work.
Brilliant thanks 🙂
Afternoon @lakiita
Going through looking at the photos I was wondering where your air vents for the back of the house/brickwork are? If they are above your concrete patio will they be blocked by the added height of pavers/tiles you want to use?
Dave
What the hell are air vents in brickwork???? Going to go have a look now. As it turns out went to bunnings to get some samples and I don't think my edging idea will work so now I have no idea. There's two concrete slabs one is the patio one which is kinda nice the other I'm just ignoring as it's a lost cause but also it's too close to the patio slab for me to fit in the edging that I wanted
I've placed an image below to give you an idea what the brick air vents/weep holes are and where they might possibly be located. Typically, builders place weep holes at the bottom of brick exterior walls. They look like vertical gaps in the mortar joints between bricks. As gravity pulls water down to the bottom of the wall, the weep holes allow water to exit just above the foundation.
Have you considered perhaps tiling the surface instead? If you are thinking about changing the look of the surface, tiling it would be the straightforward solution. But if you're after a more natural material, I recommend thinking about installing a low-level deck. It's comfy to walk on and keeps a nice even temperature even when the seasons change.
🙂lol they are nothing usually to think of twice. Some houses have air vents in teh brick work to allow ventilation of the underneath of the house. These are just vertical slots usually around the last course of bricks near the floor level. Think normal space of briscks next to each other and then a gap of 1cm then brick and another gap of 1cm. These are spaced around the house for ventilation. If you dont have them then no worries.
You can see the airvents on the walls in these photos. They are just below the floor level.
Afternoon @EricL
beat me by "that much" 🙂
I'm scared about trying anything as technical as a deck or as expensive
I am scared tiles will crack as my area moves a lot
Hi @lakiita
If you are worried about movement, I suggest using Davco 20kg Ultraflex Ceramic Tile Adhesive, this is a rubber modified adhesive and allows for minimal movement under the tile. You also have the option of getting thick floor tiles such as the Johnson Tiles 30 x 60cm Light Grey Hampton Grit Porcelain Outdoor Floor Tile which is 8.5mm thick.
If you have any other questions, please let me know.
I'm still confused on how to edge the area
4 major issues:
1. there is not much space between the slab I'm paving/ tiling and the slab I'm ignoring so now i have no idea how to edge it. I kinda think now I should just use some kind of aluminium edging just to cover over the edge? I don't know
2. my place moves a lot so I think tiles may not work but also those cement pavers are heavy but also I do like the rustic unfinished look of them as my outdoor area will still be quite rustic
3. I have no idea how to cut the pavers or tiles
4. I have a HUGE patio if I bed the pavers in sand how can I still do it in sections. I don't know if I can do it all at once but maybe if I plan it out and precut all the tiles it will be doable? I've got about 51m2 on my last measurement.
I swear by the time I finish deciding what I'm doing my leave will be over (it doesn't start for 2 wks though so I have some time yet!!)
I really understand that "crunch time" for leave approaching and not having things in place or resources to deal with them.
Just been re-reading the suggestions you have recieved.
1- Dynabolt timber to the edge of the concrete to lock the edge of the pavers in. ( @MitchellMc suggested)
2- Pavers with a little sand
3- Tiles of some kind.
4- Potential air flow problems with under the hosue vents (dont think this is an issue )
5- 51sqm of area to pave.
Did you get a a tile/paver you wanted to try? Just to see how it would look.
Pavers can be cut with a grinding disk or using a cold chisel and hammer. It took me a while to become passably accurate using the cold chisel and hammer.
I would choose a straight edge (back of the house) and go from there. You dont need to do it all in one go but can do it over a period of time. Some sand down first then the pavers. You can always temorary an area with an edge of timber just laid down and then weighted with some pavers on top to stop the sand from spreading out between the times you get to work on it.
I have done serveral projects that make up my whole front path. The sections were worked on months apart.
@Dave-1 has provided some good info there. I understand your trepidation as it is a large job, but it certainly can be worked on over time. Once you have the sand down, I don't think it's going to necessarily go anywhere. I think you'll find once you get the sand down and start laying pavers, the job will progress rather quickly. If the task seems a little overwhelming, have you considered having a quote done for the paver installation or even advertising the job on places like Airtasker or Hipages? You might find someone that is willing to work with you to complete the job together.
thanks Dave that's so reassuring to hear I can do it in sections with timber I had thought of that but then wasn't sure it would work. This is the paver I want to use Although still slightly torn between this colour and the darker sand. I thought maybe that edge wld work that you see here but it's different height and I'm not sure of my ability to match levels so maybe timber but as you can see not much space. so maybe I should just forget about the edge - no edge is visible from anywhere inside the patio anyway. It'll only be visible from outside looking in from one spot
I really want to do the job myself even though it's overwhelming. it's the columns and the cutting that really worry me
what pattern will be the easiest I thought maybe a simple brick pattern so I don't have to match lines exactly.
What sand do I use and do I use the same for top sand as for bedding?
A staggered pattern would allow more leeway with correctly positioning the pavers. You should use paving sand to bed the pavers, and you could also use it between them. Alternatively, you might wish to use a specifically designed sand between them, like the Westbuild 20kg Pave N'Lock. This type of paving sand solidifies once water is sprayed on it, preventing the sand from coming out of the joint.
Those types of edging pavers are typically used the other way around and for when your paving meets an elevated level.
Regarding cutting the pavers, we do have brick/paver saws available for hire. However, they in themselves might be a bit confronting as they are typically a trade-type tool.
yeah I figured the edger went the other way around but my original idea was I could flip it and the hanging edge wld go down the side of the cement block but it was too wide so then I was just playing around with it to see if I could make something work.
I think I've decided since there's only one side of this cement floor that can be seen and then only from outside the patio that I just need to let the edging go and just mortar in a layer of pavers and have that as the edge - if that makes sense
Staggered - is that the same as like a brick laying pattern? I assume it is - I'm looking at the exposed brick wall of my study right now and it looks fine but if you look close enough the lines aren't exactly straight
That brick paver saw looks perfect actually and it's a good price for 24 hours - might be able to plan out my cuts in that time? Not sure I have 5 columns. On the upside at least these pavers are cheap if I mess up
How deep should the laying sand be? Do you have to pack it down and level it before putting the paver on top? How do you do that? Or just level it? Do I need to set up levelling string lines for the pavers?
Yes, a brick-laying pattern @lakiita. You are just staggering the joints so they are not in a straight line.
Typically, you'd want around 40mm of sand, but pavers are generally not laid over concrete, so I don't think there are any hard and fast rules. Just enough to evenly spread it out and bed the pavers into. I'd recommend setting up some level string lines and then tamping the sand down with a hand tamper. These line levels will come in handy.
So the time has finally come for me to put in my Bunnings order - do I need to buy something to make gaps between the pavers like you do with tiles?
Is there a way for me to order my pavers in m2 or do I just need to work out how many pavers per m2 and then order that many pavers - I can't see a way on the bunnings site to do m2 only individual paver. So far I have am getting:
pavers
Bedding sand
Screed
metal to use for screeding
polymeric sand for the joints
edging (when I can figure out what edging to buy)
I want to put sealant over the top but don't know what to use - any ideas?
Have I forgotten anything? My Dad is being a legend and going to cut the tiles for me so I don't need to worry about a tile cutter.
