Can you plug a 10 Amp device into a 15 Amp socket?

Do ready made adapter allowing you to plug a 10amp cord into a 15amp socket exist? I do know in most cases a 10amp plug will work fine in a 15 amp socket but my double 15amp outlet is safety shuttered and the smaller earth pin on a 10 amp plug does not always open the shutter on the 15amp earth socket pin without some wobbling it about and therefore I suspect/worry that when I do, the earth contact is probably not as good as it could or should be. I don't want to swap the leads on the 10amp devices to a 15amp ones as that would prevent their normal use on a 10 amp outlet. I could I guess make an adapter myself by attaching a 15amp plug to a 10amp extension lead or just making a very short lead with a 10amp socket at one end and a 15 amp plug at the other end but I would have thought there might be more elegant ready made solution around.

Perhaps it's something to do with the issue discussed here https://trailersailerplace.com.au/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=5800 i.e.

" .... suggests that newer 15 amp outlets (especially commercial ones) have a restrictor built in that stops 10 amp plugs being put into them direct, even though they would otherwise fit. This is to stop people using dodgy cords that they had made that are 15 amp female (to connect to van or boat) and 10 amp plug to plug in at home dodgy style. It appears that many were using these same dodgy cables at a proper 15 amp outlet so everything was 15 amp except for the plug - thereby potential for issues.

It appears that some new 15 amp outlets require the large earth pin of a 15 amp plug to release a cover that otherwise restricts the top diagonal slots."

Find more posts tagged with

Lighting and Electrical

Comments

EricL

Hi @aussiblue

You've hit it right on the head. Doing a homebrew connection is both dangerous and illegal. Forcing non compatible connections increases the risk of an electrical shock and electrical fire. Please use only certified fittings or adaptors when joining 15A to 10A.

If you need to connect your caravan to your house, I suggest using Ampfibian 15A To 10A RV-Plus Caravan Power Adaptor. The weatherproof Ampfibian RV-PLUS is a dedicated 15A to 10A power adaptor for travellers. It safely and legally connects 15A caravans, RVs, motorhomes and camper trailers to 10A power points.

Please note that it is weatherproof but not to be thrown or soaked in open bodies of water.

Let me call on our experienced members @CSParnell and @MikeTNZ for their recommendations.

If you need further assistance, please let us know.

Eric

CSParnell

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/34029#Comment_34029

@EricL hit it on the head,

Anything made up / modified is illegal, dangerous and can void insurance. The adaptors start at around $50 for non weather proof and go over $150 for encapsulated weather proof. They have RCD protection inline rated for the conversion.

Don't risk it.

aussiblue

Eric you and the other person (CSParnell) that responded have not read my post carefully and have seemingly both misinterpreted my question completely. I definitely do not want to plug a caravan or any other 15 amp device into a 10amp socket. I want to go the other way plugging a 10amp device into a 15 amp socket. I thought, my original post's heading also emphasised this with words like "not as more commonly the other way" but if so, someone seems to have edited that out. In any event, can you please re-read and consider my original post again with this mind. I also don't perceive any significant real safety risk with a device, if used as intended, that would better allow a 10amp plug/device being plugged into my double 15 amp outlets. In many case I know people routinely plug 10amp devices into 15 amp sockets and there are sites all over the internet saying this is perfectly safe and OK. To explain further I have a double 15 map outlet on one side of my workshop (similar to this https://www.bunnings.com.au/deta-250v-15-amp-ip54-outdoor-double-power-point_p0347261 and installed by an electrician with two seperate fuses in the fuse box when I bought my car lift) that is are normally used to power my car lift and mig welder that both have 15 amp plugs and require 15 amp outlets. However, now I would also like to plug a professional 10amp tyre inflater (a Jamec Penn Digital Preset one) and a related small 10amp Woodstar CP16 wall mounted compressor into it as it would be the most convenient point in my workshop to use for inflating tyres and would negate the need for either running extension cords to my 10amp outlets on the other side of the workshop or using overly long air hoses.

I know people have often or even routinely plug 10 amp devices into 15 amp outlets without any issues or a second thought but these shuttered 15 amp outlets create a bit of a challenge.

MitchellMc

Hi @aussiblue,

It sounds like you are after either an adaptor or a short converter cord that has a 15A male plug and a 10A female plug. I am unaware of a product that has those features. If you regularly use 10A devices on that circuit, you might like to have the powerpoint swapped out for one that doesn't have the shutter system. I've spoken with HPM, and their HPM 15A Double Powerpoint will accept a 10A plug. Alternatively, it might be worth installing a 10A outlet next to your 15A.

Please let me know if you have any questions.

Mitchell

aussiblue

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/34064#Comment_34064

Yes, thanks Mitchell you have understood my question. My double 15 amp socket is a DETA that has a shuttered outlet that require the large earth pin of a 15 amp plug to be inserted to release a cover/shutter that otherwise stops use of the top diagonal slots. Perhaps I will have to change it over to a HPM but it raises questions about why these shuttered 15amp outlets are seemingly being phased in and if there has been a new safety issue discovered with using 10amp devices in 15 amp sockets. I wonder if it the safety shutter was simply to ensure anything plugged in was earthed and had an earth pin and the difficulty in "cleanly" plugging a 10amp plug with a smaller earth pin in was an unintended consequence.

MitchellMc

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/79308#Comment_79308

"but it raises questions." It certainly does, @aussiblue, and I was hoping to qualify that with HPM. I've just double-checked with HPM, as it's important we get this right, and they have advised that 10A appliances can be plugged in. However, speaking with Deta, they have strongly advised that you do not force a 10A plug into their 15A socket as the shutters have been introduced to exclude 10A plugs; the reason is as follows: A circuit designed for 15A devices has suitable overload protection designed for them. It's best to run 10A devices on a circuit designed for them so the overload protection trips immediately if something goes wrong. A failing 10A device on a 15A circuit might not trip it immediately. If, for some reason, the overload is not triggered and the 10A cable or device overheats, it could be a fire risk.

So, I think the takeaway is that it's best to consult with a licensed electrician and install suitable outlets on the correct circuit for your devices.

Mitchell

aussiblue

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/104005#Comment_104005

Thanks again; that all makes sense and is a logical and good explanation. I think I will just move my inflater system to next to the 10amp outlets on the less convenient side of the workshop and be careful to avoid tripping over the extended air hoses when I use it Installing additional 10 amp sockets would be an expensive exercise for me as my existing switchboard is full so the last electrician I used said that if I wanted to add anything more it would have to be completely replaced or an additional sub- board added and, having been through that once to replace the original asbestos backed board, I know that gets to be a very expensive exercise that I cannot justify.

MitchellMc

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/119052#Comment_119052

Oh! Could that be an excuse to rig up some type of overhead system for the air hose @aussiblue? I've seen some amazing setups in workshops where the air hose dangles in the air mid-garage with a quick connection on the end. When air is needed you just connect a short length of hose to the hanging portion.

Mitchell

aussiblue

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/128051#Comment_128051

Nah having air hoses (or worse power cords) running over vehicles up on the car lift isn't desirable either. What I perhaps really need, and perhaps Deta might want to consider making, is a suitable 10amp plug to 15 amp socket adapter with a built in RCD and over-current protector. Something like this but with 15amp pins perhaps https://www.bunnings.com.au/arlec-single-outlet-safety-switch_p7050029

aussiblue

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/133917#Comment_133917

I raised this topic on a motoring forum and a whole heap of tradies chimed in to tell me about contractor extension cables, boxes and boards that are apparently frequently used on building and construction sites that plug in to a 15 amp socket and have mix of 10 amp and 15 amp outlet sockets on them. Mostly Class H compliant, IP66 rated, fitted with their own circuit breakers and some with an earth screened lead too. None at Bunnings (yet anyway) so I can't post any links but an internet search with the string "Contactors Power Board" or "Contractors Extension Lead" will soon find them.

aussiblue

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/137576#Comment_137576

I emailed the Energy Safety Compliance Team at the WA at Building and Energy WA at be.energy@dmirs.wa.gov.au relaying the advice given from DETA via this site and I was assured that there is no issues at all with plugging a 10 amp plug into into 15 amp socket and it was perfectly safe to do so as basically the circuit is still protected and that a Australian 15A socket is meant to be designed to take both. They also said they were puzzled as to why DETA would produce a 15 amp socket that could not accept a 10 map plug. So this certainly raises some questions about the advice from DETA or perhaps even to what extent their products fully meets Australian standards.

Nailbag

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/34062#Comment_34062

Yes you can safely plug any domestic 10A plug into a 15A socket. It's smaller earth pin will be accepted by the larger one on the 15A outlet. It's this safety system that prevents the other way around. The appliance/tool being your plugging in will only draw what it requires which will be less than 10A/2400W

MikeTNZ

Hi @aussiblue,

In my understanding (as a qualified electrician/inspector here in NZ (we share the same regs)), you are meant to use 16Amp single phase IEC-309 Blue round pin connectors, using standard extension cords are not allowed, hence why the IEC-309 plug and socket arrangement was mandated in 1998.

On the side of your caravan or whatever, there is meant to be an "appliance inlet" that has pins on it.

Your flexible cord of 15m length should have a Blue 16Amp male plug on it to mate with any caravan park socket, the other end is the Blue 16Amp female cord connector that mates with the appliance inlet that you should have on your caravan.

Using anything other than this is not only non-compliant with the Electricity Regulations, but it is also very dangerous.

The reasoning behind this, was back in the '80's, every man and his dog had a caravan, run the power from his house, if the cord was too short he would make up an extra cord.

Phase transposition (as in phase and earth would get transposed), killed lots of un-suspecting wives and children when they touched the door handle on the caravan, mainly by Dad being colour-blind or not knowing which way the wires should go in either the plug or the socket end (which are different).

Sorry to come across as some sort of a fun-killer, but the only real way to have this right is to get the right equipment that ensures your family's safety,

that is what I am about.

Cheers,

Mike T.

aussiblue

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/34351#Comment_34351

I think you like many others here, have misunderstood completely and not read my posts entirely or properly. I am plugging a 10 amp plug into a 15 amp socket not the other way around and I don't have and have never had a caravan.

MikeTNZ

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/79473#Comment_79473

So,

What are you trying to do?

Any 10 Ampere male plug should plug into a 15A socket?

They are backwards compatible.

Are you trying to plug a 15A male plug into a 10A socket?, that is NOT going to work, as the Earth pin is larger for the 15A plug.

What are you on about that this has taken this long to sort out?

Nailbag

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/34351#Comment_34351

@MikeTNZ just an FYI its 15A not 16A over here mate and no blue colour coding or any other specific colour on leads or sockets/plugs.

aussiblue

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/104118#Comment_104118

No; I am not trying to plug a 15A male plug into a 10A socket.

Read all the posts in the whole thread and you will know why this thread is so long. There is no one liner to summarize it.

CSParnell

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/104005#Comment_104005

@MitchellMc I find Delta's statement hard to take serious from an electrical supplier that should have engineers onboard.

Under AS3000 wiring rules (the sparky bible) the minimum size protection device that is permissible for a 2.5mm cable which is used for power circuits is 16 amp and most common is 20 amp, now there are other factors and calculations that go into working out which protection device is required which I won't go into due to that is reserved to those that are qualified.

Now typicaly if you have a known 15amp device you run a dedicated circuit with a 15 amp outlet and that is so you don't overload a shared circuit but it is no higher rated than any other general power circuit unless those calculations I mentioned come into play.

So to plug a 10amp into a 15amp circuit bares no effect on the load of the circuit.

But!!!!

To plug a 15 amp into a 10 amp circuit without correct conversion and advisable protection could leave you in hot water. The old file down the earth pin is not acceptable. A 15 amp to 10 amp converter with inline protection starts from $50 and is worth the peace of mind.

The issue with just jamming 15 amp into a 10 amp circuit is you have the potential for overload. Now if that circuit has been calculated correct and the protection is spot on then the worst that will happen is you will trip the circuit.

If the circuit was poorly designed and it's scary how often it is not designed you can run the chance of the protection device not tripping and the cable along the run in a wall or ceiling catching on wire. If the circuit is to long and you have a fault your protection device might not trip and same thing call fireman Sam ( I have seen this).

Now a safety switch will only protect from electrocution not from overloading, shorts that's why you have circuit breakers or combos.

So why shutters on 15amp outlets? I'm not sure I can only speculate it's because there is concern of a chance that with a 10amp earth pin it may not make proper contact. Current will only supply what is required.

Anyways that's Carl's brain fart explosion for the afternoon apologies if you were standing in front of me 😆

aussiblue

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/119138#Comment_119138

I suspect the shutters might really be just there to stop water ingress for their IP 54 water protection. If you look at the specs for an almost identical looking twin 15amp outlet (and probably from the same factory) Voltex outlet on the Voltex site its says: "These high current outlets are rated to 15A, and are shuttered, to ensure maximum protection against the weather". Clipsal similarly say of theirs: "....while integrated shutters seal the power outlet apertures to prevent water ingress, ensuring an IP54 protection rating." While despite extensive "Googling" I can't find any similar claims from either DETA or HPM about there IP rated outdoor 15 amp sockets, ones suspects waterproofing might also be the reason theirs are also shuttered.

CSParnell

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/34351#Comment_34351

Hey @MikeTNZ no over the ditch here we are flat pins with larger earth pin, that's why you can fit a 10a into a 15a and that's why ppl used to file down the earth pin of a 15a to fit into a 10a

CSParnell

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/128117#Comment_128117

Ok doing a search on why shuttered revealed the following.

Shuttered power points in Australia are designed with safety in mind, particularly to protect children from electrical hazards. These shutters prevent direct access to the active components of the socket, making it harder for objects, such as fingers or metal tools, to be inserted into the plug holes. When a plug is inserted correctly, the shutters are designed to open and allow the plug to make contact with the electrical contacts safely.

The introduction of shuttered power points aligns with Australian standards for electrical safety (AS/NZS 3112), which aim to reduce accidents and injuries related to electrical outlets. This is part of a broader commitment to safety in electrical installations, ensuring that homes, workplaces, and public spaces are safer for everyone, especially for children who might not be aware of the dangers associated with electricity.

Which makes perfect sense as that's all we can use within the education sector that we do work in.

Child Item