Hi There -
I am building a bench seat for my dining table and bought these legs - https://www.bunnings.com.au/rapidhome-30-x-45-x-6cm-black-la-paz-steel-tube-bench-seat-furniture-leg_p0205482
I need some help on what panel to choose. It would have to sit 3 adults (max case) - So about 250 - 300 Kg. Do i need to consider some sort of reinforcement for the panel. I also will stain it to match my dining table colour. Any suggestions would help.
Thanks
Hi @J-P,
You'd want to be looking at the 33mm panels as they are significantly stronger and will cope better with that weight than the 18mm panels. If the bench is longer than 1500mm, add bracing timbers underneath the seat or consider a midleg for extra support, preventing sagging.
It's best to use hardwood as it can span longer distances than pine, but the type will likely be determined by what's most similar in colour to your dining table.
Ensure the legs are securely attached using appropriate screws and brackets.
Please let me know if you have any questions.
Mitchell
@MitchellMc - Thanks for your response. Now the bench seat if half the price of the table 😀. If I reinforce with framing timber along the length or provide 3rd leg it is good enough? Which one of the two would you recommend?
I might need pine since they can be stained to chocolate brown my table is. 26mm with pine supports or 3rd leg not good enough?
I am fixing them with 10g screws since I can’t find 12g screws that fit the size.
How long is the bench seat going to be, @J-P? The 26mm pine would work, provided you installed a third leg or added framing timber underneath.
@MitchellMc - missed that critical detail in the first post. The table is 2.1M. So I am planning the bench seat to be 1.8m long and 30-35 cm wide. The legs are 30cm wide.
I'd go with the mid-leg, @J-P. It will ensure that there is no sagging over the 1800mm length.
Morning @J-P
I think you still may get some flexing even with a third leg. Id go with @MitchellMc's first suggestion tho. 🙂
To test if you think it will flex or not, head on into Bunnings and check out the timber, There are plenty of 2.1m lengths. Grab one and a couple of offcut timbers and place them where you are thinking to have them on your seat. Gently step into the middle between the support and see if it flexes. Yes I have done the same when testing things 🙂
I would say min 40mm depth for the timber seat.
Dave
@Dave-1 / @MitchellMc - let me try the test that Dave recommended. I am thinking of reinforcing with 70mm framing pine along the length.
also @Dave-1 hope you meant 40cm width not 40mm thick panel. I haven’t seen 40 mm panel in Bunnings
I was thinking this width/height 90 x 45mm Outdoor Framing H3 Treated Pine - 2.4m You can go wider as in 180mm but the height of 45mm is what will hlp stop the flex. (I was taking a guess at the minimumn thickness, 45mm is what I should have said.
@Dave-1 - Good afternoon. Since the width doesn’t matter (based on my limited knowlefge) I will do 70x45 internal framing (to save couple of dollars). The 45 side is what would be attached to the bottom of the seat. Is that right? (my knowledge is that side only has the framing strength)
Afternoon @J-P
Any chance you could do a rough drawing of the bench seat you have in mind? I have a feeling what I have in my head isnt matching up to what you are wanting to do.
Yes already thought about it after hitting reply before. Will get out later today
Got a little enthusiastic on this and took a break from work and drew this. How does this look? Since i drew this, i will also take feedback on the placement of screws in the supporting framing timber.
Thanks for your time and expertise - @Dave-1 @MitchellMc
🙂 beautiful work! And yeah I understand now (I was on a differant path of what you wanted)
Nothing to add to it other then maybe move the legs up against the yellow pieces of timber for stability more then anything.
It looks like a good design that will make your bench seat very solid. I do have two very minor additions though.
Due to the length of the longer timbers, you should add another screw so there are four screws in each long member.
Also, screw the framing timbers together so the load is transferred between the timbers. At present, they are not directly connected, so they do not act as one "bracing unit".
Very minor changes, but they will help to add strength with very minimal effort.
Let me know what you think.
Jacob
Thanks @Dave-1 for your precious advice. I have incorporated your recommendation in teh design.
Thanks @JacobZ for your recommendation. I have incorporated in both bottom and side views. Will put the screws in equal distance from each other.
Will use 10g screws and 26mm panel.
@JacobZ / @Dave-1 / @MitchellMc - I finally started this project. Wanted to get a live edge panel but couldnt find one. So I am making one myself with the flat edge and jigsaw and some angular grinder wood carving disc. Will post the final outcome later.
But I got another question on how to drive the screws from the framing pine to the panel. The panel is 26mm white gum hardwood panel and the framing pine is 70mm. I have 10G 65mm screws. I will predrill the holes in the panel and the pine. What is the best way to drive the screws with an impact drill without coming over the other side and have max penetration. Any jig or way to know when exactly to stop the drill.
It's great to hear you're now getting stuck into this project.
If you were drilling straight down through the hardwood panel into the pine framing, you would go through 26mm of hardwood panel and the screw would embed itself 39mm into the pine framing.
When the screw sits flush with the hardwood top, you should then stop the drill.
If your concern is with the screw missing the pine framing, this can be avoided by carefully measuring and marking out your screw locations before predrilling your pilot holes.
Simply measure in from the end of the hardwood top and mark out the location of the framing with a pencil. Any pencil marks can be removed very easily with some light sanding, so there's no need to worry about marking the timber.
Let me know if you have any further questions along the way and don't forget to share some photos when your project is complete, it would be great to see the end result.
I was planning on screwing from the pine frame to the panel (bottom to top) to avoid dealing with hole to file on the top. Is one way better than other?
The only disadvantage this time that I can see is that the top of the seat is only 26mm thick, Its doable from underneath but just nmeans you will have to be cautious. For a drill I would use a torque drill over an impact drill (going into hardwood I have snapped a bunch of smaller screws is why)
That said I did do the same thing you are suggesting with my gabion bench seat as I did not want the screws to show. That was a 45mm top timber tho so I had a larger "fudge" space.
Ideally, you would screw down from the top, because you would be able to get far more depth of embedment in the framing than you would in the benchtop. The more of the screws thread in the timber, the more pulling power, and consequently the stronger the connection.
As @Dave-1 has said it is doable, but there'd be a few extra steps.
The simplest way would be to grab a 90mm screw such as these Buildex 90mm Timber Screws and drive them all the way through the pine framing into the benchtop.
If you're set on using the 65mm screws that you have, you could grab a drill bit that is larger than the head of your screw to countersink a hole in the framing that will set a depth in relation to the screw. Something like this Sutton Tools 10mm Viper Jobber Drill Bit should work fine assuming the diameter of the screw head is smaller than 10mm, which I'm fairly confident it should be. It's definitely worth double-checking though, which can be done by placing the tip of the drill bit against the head of the screw. If the drill bit is wider than the screw head, you are good to go.
Now with your 10mm drill bit, measure 25mm from the tip and put some masking tape around the drill bit. This will act as a depth gauge for your countersink. Drill into the framing timber until the tape touches the surface. You will now have a 25mm countersink in your framing timber. Using this depth hole as a gauge for depth will give the 65mm screw 20mm of embedment in the bench top with 6mm before it punches through. See the below image as an example.
Once this countersink has been pre-drilled, you can use a Sutton Tools 3.0mm Long Series Jobber Drill Bit to put a pilot hole all the way through the framing timber. Make sure the benchtop is clear of the framing while doing this step.
Once there is a hole all the way through the framing timber, place the framing timber in place on the benchtop and put the 3mm drill bit all the way through the framing timber and lightly mark the benchtop. Remove the framing timber and then drill a small pilot hole into the benchtop. You can use the same trick with the tape to ensure you drill 20mm in.
Now all the holes have been drilled, you can screw it all together.
Let me know what you think and if you require any clarification.
Thanks @Dave-1 for your suggestions. @JacobZ - The countersink you said is exactly what i did to put the framing timber to shape (on the corners) and 10mm countersink was perfect. The only problem I have with attaching the frame to the seat (what you have suggested which aligns with why I already planned) is how to figure out when the 10mm countersink ends because it is pine and you can’t tell by the resistance.
I think I will do some trials with the off cuts I have before trying on the real one. I have already spent few hours and will spend some more to make the panel look like a live edge.
hopefully I will finish in a couple of weekends.
The next challenge is how to match this stain of the table (I know it is very very hard to tell from pictures). It is more black brown with a satin finish. The first picture is a comparison of the panel to offcut coated with one coat of merbau stain varnish. Any insight on this is also appreciated
The idea with the tape on the drill bit is that when drilling your countersink, the tape will hit the surface of the framing timber and indicate when to stop. Then when you're screwing the timber into place, you would simply need to drive the screw until it sits flush with the bottom of your countersunk hole.
Practicing on an off cut is definitely worth doing, but you should be able to tell when to stop by simply looking at the depth of the screw. If the screw head sits flush with the bottom of the countersink hole, that's the right depth.
It is going to be difficult to get a perfect colour match because you are working with different species of timber but comparing them in person will be the best way to go about it.
My suggestion is to take an offcut from when you're creating the live edge and bring it in store with you. There is usually a display board with the stains that you can put an offcut next to and compare the colours.
Let me know if you have any further questions.
@JacobZ @Dave-1 @MitchellMc -
finally finished this today. Got the panel cut from Bunnings. And did 30 def cut along sides with jigsaw and then used wood carving disk to create the different shapes. Smoothed with sanding disc.
Went with screws from panel to support and filled the holes with the saw dust from cuts and glue from. It is still visible but that’s ok. Hope did a decent job with the stain matching with rich chocolate stain(5th pic)
only missing work is that the table finish more smooth and soft than the bench. Will probably a coat of something (will figure that out)
Hello @J-P
Thank you very much for sharing that update, the bench seat looks fantastic! I'm sure @JacobZ, @Dave-1 and @MitchellMc will be happy to see the results.
If you need further assistance, please let us know.
Eric
Good Morning @J-P
Now thats a solid looking bench seat! 🙂 Looks good and teh colouring looks a match 🙂
Did you put something like these under the feet Surface Gard 22mm Black Round Rubber Bumper - 6 Pack ?
I like how you have sanded it back so no "ouchies" 🙂 Nice Job.
Hi Dave - yes I put some thick felt to avoid contact with floor while moving. I spent good chunk of time in sanding because the bench would be at knee length for people and don’t want them to get a cut or scrape
@J-P
Definently worth it, knee and look wise!
@Dave-1 @EricL @JacobZ @MitchellMc
Bonus stool with the panel and other offcuts carved all around
Thanks for sharing the stool you made to go along with your original bench seat.
It looks great. Hopefully you get some good use out of it in the future.
Bonus stuff is GOLD! 😀 its like finding an extra chocolate in teh bottom of a bag 🙂
