How to replace worn seat in sink taps?

Hi @Krusty,

The copper piece that the spindle screws into is called a breech. It is likely to be similar to a Brassheads WELS 3 Star Forward Bowl Sink Set With 165mm Spout for a basin.

Mitchell

All comments

Hi @Krusty,

Were the sleeves you used something like Kinetic 12mm Push In Tap Seats? This is what you would use if you're having difficulty reaming the tap seat flat. When you say the tap seats have been over-reamed it sounds like they are flat, but the washer no longer makes contact as the seat is too deep. If this is the case, you could try installing a HydroSeal Tap Seat Replacement Kit as this kit has threaded seats.

I believe installing ceramic disc tap spindles could solve this issue if the seats are in good shape, just out of reach. The spindles on these have an outer nut which is adjusted up and down, allowing the spindle body to contact the seat. They have a lot more adjustability than the older style spindles in regards to the depth at which they make contact with the seat. They'll still only adjust 10mm but this might be enough to solve the issue.

You install them by removing the outer nut/cover flange threaded section and then screwing the tap body down until the seal meets the tap seat. The outer nut is then screwed onto the tap body. Hopefully, once you have screwed the tap body in, you'll still have enough thread exposed to screw the outer nut onto it.

Mitchell

Thanks Mitchell they were the push in Kinetic sleeves,the original seat I think were reamed too far with the smallest tool as there are 2 sizes and now the seal becomes stuck in the recess but does not seal properly and there seems to be a break in the seat creating a channel for water to leak,I will try your suggested seal kit but can replace the bottom body if I have some direction with what to replace with,Great response,Krusty.

A crack in the seat sounds like a bit of an issue, and I'm not sure whether a replacement tap seat would fix that @Krusty. I believe the water will try to migrate around the seal and through the crack.

Please let us know how you go and if you decide to go down the path of replacing the lower tap body.

Mitchell

Cheers Mitchell any links to suitable tap ware would be greatly appreciated I am having a hard time finding it on the shelf,a little overwhelming,Krusty.

Hello @Krusty

As mentioned by @MitchellMc this kit should be sufficient to fix the existing damage to the seats by creating a new thread for the new seats to travel on.

Red

Screenshot_2021-02-15 HydroSeal Tap Seat Replacement Kit.png

Hi @Krusty,

The copper piece that the spindle screws into is called a breech. It is likely to be similar to a Brassheads WELS 3 Star Forward Bowl Sink Set With 165mm Spout for a basin.

Mitchell

Cheers Mitchell I’ve been looking and asking for replacement taps this clears up the confusion for me and the Bunnings worker I will take measurements to be sure and head straight down for this purchase, thanks a lot Krusty.

Thanks Mitchell.

G,day Mitchell,Taps from underneath are 200mm apart?maybe older set,Krusty.

Mitchell this is photo from under sink

Jason

Thanks for the photos @Krusty.

@MitchellMc will be back on the site on Friday and happy to help.

Jason

Hi @Krusty,

I'm all for D.I.Y., but if this were my sink, I'd be calling a plumber and getting a quote on repair. The limited space and the way the copper pipe has been bent makes this job quite difficult. This is also considered mains plumbing and should be left to a plumber as it is not a cosmetic D.I.Y. like changing taps.

You could most likely use a Brassheads WELS 3 Star Forward Bowl Sink Set With 165mm Spout, but it will need to be bent to suit. You might also like to check-out the costing of a budget-friendly vanity and sink mixer.

Mitchell

Cheers Mitchell,would it be possible to keep existing plumbing and replace only the tap bottoms (where tap washer seats)these seem to unbolt,if so what would these be called on their own,Thinking through Krusty.

I might need to phone a friend on that one @Krusty; I've already looked for that for you and can't seem to locate them.

Mitchell

@redracer01, would you have seen an individual breech seat without the connecting pipe, preferably with compression fittings on it?

Mitchell

Hello @MitchellMc , Hello @Krusty

I'm sorry Mitch but I'm afraid we don't have this particular type of breech. Looking at the assembly this could have been possibly have been hand built. The breech plus compression fittings soldered together to form this particular set up. You'll notice that the body of the breech has no basin levelling adjustment that would allow you to retro fit it into any type of basin. In these situations I would suggest to get a generic basin set such as the Estilo basin tap set. It provides you with everything you might possibly need to fix this without having to solder anything. This would be a moderate to difficult fix as it is in a very tight area of the vanity. But by preparing the parts and equipment needed it should be possible to fix this. The Estilo basin tap set has a modern breech body that is height adjustable. It comes with compression fittings already attached, bending the copper "T" would not be necessary with the new set as it is adjustable enough to accommodate a straight join.

If you do proceed with the fix I suggest putting in shut off valves to the hot and cold line to allow you to turn it off independently of the whole house. My other suggestion is to use flexi hoses to link the shut off valve to the new breech. There are many videos online showing how to update your old breech set with new modern ones. If you were to asses the amount of work you are about to do to replace just one of the breech's, it would be practical to just put new ones in on both sides.

Budget wise if you do decide to just replace the breach, it is still cheaper to buy the set. A general search for an individual breech has revealed a price point of 50 dollars. Where as the Estilo basin tap set has 2 breeches in it plus body cover and handle. It also has the copper "T" included for only 49 dollars. If you wish to disassemble the set to just use the breech's yes you can do it and it would still be more affordable than buying the breech by itself. I hope this has cleared up some of the possible solutions for you. I suggest planning a weekend where you can spend time planning how you will disassemble it and how you will re-install it. Good luck and stay safe.

Cheers,

Red

Screenshot_2021-02-22 Estilo WELS 3 Star 9L min Basin Set.png Out of the box!

Many thanks for checking on that for me @redracer01. At that price point, I wouldn't have expected the breech to be included with the basin set. That's a great solution and provides everything @Krusty needs, including new taps and a spout.

As always, I appreciate your assistance.

Mitchell

Thanks Red this is what I’ve been looking for should have come to your shop,always appreciate good help,Krusty.

@Krusty, we're currently investigating how we can clone @redracer01 and have him available in every Warehouse around Australia. In the meantime, we might just need to rely on his valuable assistance here.

Good luck with your project; keep us updated and let us know if you run into difficulties.

Mitchell

Thanks Mitchell this community has been more than helpful Red has me sold,heading to Bunnings,Krusty.

DIY-Dilatante

This appears to be almost identical to my situation, save that my connecting Tee is straight rather than curved (and a little longer).

However my proposed solution is rather different: I would like to install a mixer like the https://www.bunnings.com.au/mondella-wels-4-star-7-5l-min-35mm-cadenza-cast-basin-mixer_p5003310

However I'm concerned that a mixer has (at least) 2 incoming pipes, and so maybe needs a larger hole. I'm guessing from my photo that the spout is screwed down onto a ½inch thread, which would imply that the hole is at least 17mm, but I cannot see the hole until it's disassembled.

The installation guide https://delivery.bunningscontenthub.bunnings.com.au/api/public/content/bc377a838db34574b0e7f733f2e489e3?v=1092e508 does not mention the size of hole that should be cut.

Any guidance on either (a) expanding the hole in the sinktop, or (b) identifying which mixers might fit, would be appreciated.

Hello @DIY-Dilatante

Welcome to Bunnings Workshop. The hole size you are after is 30mm to a maximum of 32 mm but no bigger than that. Most modern basin mixers have a base size of 35mm some with extra base flanges that extend it out to 40 mm, but as a rule of thumb you never drill bigger than the base of the tap. Converting from traditional hot and cold to a modern single mixer is a time honored practice. Specially if the vanity is still in very good condition. I always recommend to put in isolation taps so that you can isolate the basin mixer without having to turn off the plumbing in the whole house.

Drilling through acrylic : Good quality hole saw. Watch lots of video guides before attempting.

Drilling through ceramic : Danger level extremely high, possibility of cracking porcelain also extremely high. I would not recommend it.

Below are the basic items you will need should the hole for the basin mixer be big enough. Good luck and stay safe.

Cheers,

Red

Screenshot_2021-04-17 Craftright 22mm Tube And Pipe Cutter.png Screenshot_2021-04-17 Kinetic 15mm Chrome Mini Cistern Stop.png

Screenshot_2021-04-17 Shaw Mason Stainless Steel Sink Cover Plate.png

Hi @DIY-Dilatante,

It's great to see you've already received a comprehensive reply from the knowledgeable @redracer01.

You might actually find that the holes for the taps are larger than the spout hole and you could locate your mixer to the left or right and block off the spout and other tap hole. I recently completed a similar project, and I was able to place the mixer through a tap hole. It was tight, but I managed to fit the two small flex pipes and the locking mechanism through easily.

I'd suggest the best place to start would be removing the spout and checking what size hole you have to work with.

Please let us know if you need further assistance or have questions.

Mitchell

DIY-Dilatante

Hi @redracer01

Thanks for your reply.

I already have all the items shown, except the pipe cutter and compression unions.

It's not clear to me why I would need those, but perhaps I didn't explain well enough: the taps are currently fed by (braided flexible) hoses, which are visible in the foreground of my picture; the only rigid pipework is the mixing junction between the taps, which I intend to remove along with the taps and spout, and the in-wall pipes, which I'm not changing.

I've bought a Mandella Cadenza mixer (https://www.bunnings.com.au/mondella-wels-4-star-7-5l-min-cadenza-swivel-basin-mixer_p5003380) which has a threaded shaft of about 30mm and a base of about 50mm, but the O ring underneath is set in by a few millimetres and that would be the limit for how large a hole I could drill. (That said, if the hole is large and slack, the tap could slide so far off-centre that the O ring won't seal, so I will use the smallest cutter I have available.)

When I've drilled using a hole saw before, it has had a long guide bit in the centre, which obviously won't help if I'm expanding an existing hole; so am I likely to encounter any problem with "drifting"? (I don't want to wind up with scratches on top of the bench around the hole; even if they're not visible, they may compromise the O-ring seal.) I'm using a battery-power drill/driver, so "take it slow to start" is obvious, but is there anything else I should do to counteract drift when starting the hole?

I will use a rasp to check whether the basin is ceramic before drilling.

Incidentally, cut-off valves (aka mini cistern stops) are available in 2-packs for $12, which is 19% cheaper than singly.

DIY-Dilatante

Hi @MitchellMc

That's ordinarily a good idea, but my options in this case are firmly limited by "other people's aesthetic preferences", so expanding the centre hole it will have to be.

Your approach would also be useful for a traditional configuration with 2 separate taps without a mixing nozzle.