Low Deck - Timber options for frame

Hi All,

Another low deck over Concrete.

The height from concrete to door threshold is only 120mm, so frame can only be 90x45.

I have seen a lot of details in this forum about the low decks. Most of the discussions talk about MGP10 TP.

My question is what are the other options for the 90x45 TP that can be used for framing this low deck? Would a F5 H3 TP suffice?

I read somewhere the load capacity for F5 and MGP10 is similar, with MPG10 being stiffer. Is that right? What is the difference between F5 and MGP10?

Varun

Find more posts tagged with

Tools and Materials

Decking and Paving

Comments

MitchellMc

Hi Varun (@arian10daddy),

By the sounds of it, if you have 120mm minus the 90mm framing and the 19mm for decking, you'll still have 11mm for airflow and drainage under the frame. You can use Carinya 40 x 80 x 40 x 5mm Hot Dipped Galvanised Angle Brackets fixed into the concrete and then bolt the Treated Pine Outdoor Timber Framing 90 x 45mm to them. You can use plastic spacers to help establish the 11mm gap.

You could use F5 graded hardwood timber, which might have some benefit over H3 treated pine MGP10 in your application. However, I haven't personally heard of F5 H3 treated pine. H3 treated pine MGP10 is the most commonly used structural grade timber for most exterior projects around the home. F grades indicate the basic working stress (in bending) for hardwood timbers, whilst MGP indicates a minimum threshold for stiffness and is used for softwoods.

Please let me know if you have questions.

Mitchell

arian10daddy

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/12775#Comment_12775

Thanks for the response Mitchell.

Everywhere I check, the mgp10 H3 TP is in short supply. They blame it on Covid.

A landscape supplier said he has F5 TP in stock. Since I hadn't heard about it as well, I am a bit confused on it too.

Maybe others in this forum might share their experience on this grade of Treated Pine.

MitchellMc

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/68866#Comment_68866

Varun (@arian10daddy),

After further investigation, it appears the F grade system is sometimes applied to softwoods like pine as well. It sounds like what you can get your hands on would be suitable, but I would encourage you to have a visual inspection of the timber first to check if there are limited knots and no significant twisting or bowing.

I'll reach out via private message to get details of your location to check with our stores for available H3 MGP10 stock for you.

Mitchell

arian10daddy

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/97403#Comment_97403

I thought I'll show a little more of the plan I've made, and gain some knowledge from everybody's experience.

I'm thinking of a 3600x4000mm deck using 90x45 F5 H3 TP and 90x19 Merbau which will run from left to right in the above pic, and will be picture framed (I love it un-framed but the Mrs. wants it framed).

The joists are at almost every 300-350mm, and should have a noggin every 1000mm. The 400x400 pillar with a circular downpipe will not be picture framed.

The window packers will run under each joist at 800mm on the afresco, and maybe 3 L-brackets every length. I will use the 100x75 offcuts I have from 200x75 H4 sleepers to make posts over the concrete pathway. I will paint those posts with the black tar paint at the bottom where it touches the concrete. The posts will in a similar pattern as the window packers.

To connect the frame together I'll use joist hangers and L brackets.

A few questions:

1. To connect the frame together using joist hangers and L brackets, should I use galv. nails or galv. screws?

2. What would be the best way to connect the posts to the frame?

3. I won't be screwing the posts to the concrete pathway. I'll only connect the frame to the alfresco concrete. Is that sufficient enough?

4. Any other insights?

Varun

StevieB

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/115364#Comment_115364

Hi Varun (@arian10daddy),

Thanks for sharing more about your project.

Let me tag @Adam_W and @DIYgals who may have some advice and suggestions for you.

Stevie

DIYgals

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/125541#Comment_125541

Hi @arian10daddy ! It looks like your plans are well underway. 🙂

We vote for picture framing also!

We can share with you a little bit about our experience to help you make a decision on some of those things you have questions about. There are probably a million of different ways you can do it though.

1. We started to use nails on our joist straps, but because we didn't have a nail gun we found it took too long. So we switched half way to galv screws. These are the ones we used: https://www.bunnings.com.au/otter-12g-x-25mm-matt-black-class-3-hex-head-screws-150-pack_p0162366 The screws also made it much easier to make any minor adjustments after attaching the joists and bearers if needed.

2. We used Galv Bolts to attach our frame to posts.

3. I would think that attaching the posts just to your framework which is secured to the alfresco concrete is sufficient enough to stabilise the step, is there any particular reason you do not wish to attach it to the concrete pathway?

Good luck with the build!

arian10daddy

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/132388#Comment_132388

Thank you @DIYgals for sharing your experience, as well as @MitchellMc and @StevieB for helping me out.

I was not able to find the otter he head screws @DIYgals mentioned, and the ones I found were pretty expensive. I got my hands on some of the button head galvanised "stitching screws" with #2 Phillips head. I wonder if these would work to attach the joist hangers. Weird enough, I wasn't able to find these in Bunnings website.

I also bought 75mm external timber screws to join 2 90x45 boards together where needed, as well as screwing boards at right angle where joist hangers can't be used. I hope that works out too. (fingers crossed)

I also got the joist hangers and the big pack of window packers.

Deck frame stuff from Bunnings.jpeg

Its Good Friday tomorrow and everything will be closed. So I think at least that I am all set to build the frame.

As far as attaching it to the concrete, I'll work on that later in the week. While we're on that topic, I remember some discussions here that talked about using the plastic spegetti and screws to fix the L-brackets down into the concrete. I am wondering what kind of screws could have been used in those cases?

If using dynabolts, I'm looking at about $2-$3 per dynabolt. Wondering about a more cost effective alternative.

Regards,

Varun

MitchellMc

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/136548#Comment_136548

It's great to see you are well on your way to a new deck, Varun (@arian10daddy).

Those screws look like they will be fine for attaching the joist hangers. The 75mm screws will only have 30mm penetrating the timber piece you are joining once they've gone through the 45mm thick joist. I'd recommend you drive them in past the surface, so they penetrate a little deeper.

I can't wait to see your deck taking shape. Ensure you take plenty of photos during construction as our other members will find them very beneficial and of great inspiration.

Mitchell

arian10daddy

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/139429#Comment_139429

Thought I'll give an update on the progress.

Frame is all built, but its yet to be made flat with all the shims. I'm thinking some bricklayers thread and a level and a lot of patience should do the trick.

For the screws to be used on merbau over H3 pine frame, what is the preferred option with people in this forum? Stainless steel or the buildex climacoat? Neither is a match with the merbau wood color. Do you folks like screws to stand out or blend in? Square drive or torx drive? 10g vs 8g? 50mm vs 65mm? Standard head vs trim head? More options = more confusion!

MitchellMc

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/141362#Comment_141362

Hi Varun (@arian10daddy),

It's great to hear that you've made progress on your decking project. I'd encourage you to use stainless steel deck screws over Climacoat. Climacoat screws are perfect for joining joists but would be considered less aesthetically pleasing than the stainless on a decking board.

I've laid a deck with Zenith 12G x 50mm Stainless Steel Self Drilling Decking Screws, and since they are self-drilling, it saved me loads of time. When fixing screws in hardwood, it's recommended to pre-drill a hole first. If you were happy to pre-drill, something like Zenith 8 - 10 x 50mm Stainless Steel Type 17 Decking Screws would also be adequate.

Both Square drive and Torx drive are significantly more resistant to their heads stripping out than Phillips drive. I've only ever chosen square drive before and have never had any issues with them, but I'd imagine you'd be happy with either as your choice.

All 8g, 10g and 12g decking screws will be adequate for the job. I generally like to use something slightly thicker than the 8g, so 10g would be my choice or the 12g self-drilling option. 50mm screws are also adequate, and personally, I feel the 65mm is a little over-kill. They have more holding force, but 50mm screws will be fine under general decking conditions.

If you are not pre-drilling and countersinking, then trim head screws can leave less distortion to the timber surface. Little ribs under the head expand the timber before the countersunk head being driven home. They give you a better finish than a standard head screw.

Please let me know if you need further assistance or have questions.

Mitchell

arian10daddy

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/142819#Comment_142819

Thanks a ton for that info, Mitchell. I bought the buildex screws from one of the stores. I guess I'll be going back to swap it for the stainless screws. I'm thinking 10g-50 SS screws and the Smart Bit for the same to drill and countersink before screwing.

Thanks again. Will keep you posted.

MitchellMc

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/143840#Comment_143840

I apologise, Varun (@arian10daddy); I forgot to mention one other fixing method you might be interested in.

For the ultimate in concealed fixings, have a look at the Camo Hidden Deck Screw Guide. This allows you to place the screws on the edge of the boards instead of the face. You won't see any screws on your decking boards with this method.

Mitchell

arian10daddy

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/144627#Comment_144627

Hi All,

I finished the deck yesterday, with all the bells and whistles I could think of. I will post the pics tomorrow.

Meanwhile, I had one last question for you experienced folks. I used the Aquadeck (Natural) for the merbau decking. Before applying 2 coats of that, I had already installed the deck lights (Brilliant Lighting - Lennox, warm white, 10 pack). After applying the Aquadeck, I realized it stained the stainless steel cover of the deck lights. What would be the best way to remove the stains from the deck lights?

On a side note, it is very disappointing to get incorrect advise from the staff at bunnings store that the deck lights are compatible with the smart controller (https://www.bunnings.com.au/brilliant-36w-diy-plug-in-smart-garden-light-controller_p0145080). I bought both of these, cut out the holes for lights, installed, and then realised the smart controller isnt compatible with the lights at all. Does anyone know of any adaptprs that can be used to connect these? Or maybe a way to have a smart plug connected outside on a weatherproof socket (like maybe a cover around the outdoor socket) ?

MitchellMc

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/145206#Comment_145206

I'm excited to see your finished results @arian10daddy.

Since Aquadeck is a water-based product, I would suggest you try to remove the stain on your deck lights with warm water and a toothbrush. Some dishwashing detergent added to the water could assist. You might also find that the coating can be scratched off the surface, but be careful not to mark your stainless steel in the process.

I am also disappointed to hear of your experience and apologise for the inconvenience caused. HPM has a smart exterior powerpoint that could control the deck lights and allow you to turn them on and off. Your current powerpoint would need to be replaced. Alternatively, there are the Valla deck lights that come with their own remote. They are also a 40mm light and should fit in the holes you have already made.

I'll reach out via PM for additional details and to help assist in solving this situation.

Mitchell

arian10daddy

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/145662#Comment_145662

As promised, here are the pics.

The frame, painted with bitumen paint on the top. I had attached about 10 L-Brackets all around the frame.

The deck after 2 Aquadeck applications (from inside, looking out)

The deck (from outside, looking in.)

Tooting my own horn but I am very proud of the crisp lines and cuts. 😀

This is what I meant by the staining of the deck lights. This is supposed to be stainless steel.

MitchellMc

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/146011#Comment_146011

Spectacular work Varun (@arian10daddy)! I particularly like your attention to detail. The way you've cut boards along their length to fill the sloping gap at the side of the deck is a work of art.

Congratulations on creating a thing of beauty. Now it time to sit back, sip some drinks and admire all your hard work.

Well done.

Mitchell

MalcolmSSS

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/141362#Comment_141362

Just a thought on the screws. I recently had to replace a large area of deck around our pool and for the Merbau, I elected to use stainless steel screws and pilot drilled each hole first. Sounds a long process but definitely made it easier. A builder friend also suggested to spray each screw hole post pilot drill with a liquid / water mixture as this helps to reduce screw temperature and in turn reduces chance of screws breaking. Good luck.

MitchellMc

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/142825#Comment_142825

Some great advice there, @MalcolmSSS. I have experienced stainless screws snapping on me before, so I'll be trying your tip to reduce screw temperature. I did note the ones that had snapped were quite hot as I might not have drilled the pilot holes quite large enough.

Many thanks for contributing to the discussion.

Mitchell

Child Item