After some great waterproofing products for special use

Impossible to tell from your photo but you could have multiple possible sources of water leaking - behind shower rose and/or tap penetrations, failed silicone at wall-to-wall or wall-to-floor junctions, failed grout, insufficient or failed waterproof membrane at your waste (a puddle flange should be installed under your waste).

Acrylic or polymarble bases are pretty leakproof if installed correctly. As a minimum, you should;

- Remove all tiles and probably plasterboard behind

- Remove floor tiles.

- Repair any damaged timber and flooring.

- Install new timber in walls to support new plasterboard.

- Check out timber studs to rebate the shower base as per manufacturer instructions.

- Install shower base.

- Install new plasterboard - tape and plaster joins, caulk only (no plaster compound) at wall-to-wall joins and at wall to shower base join.

- Waterproof walls with bond breaker at wall-to-wall joins

- Tile and grout.

- Reinstate shower screen.

There is no product that can produce a 10mm thick layer of waterproof gel...even if there was I can't think of a way that you'd be able to successfully terminate it to a waste without water running back underneath.

EricL

Hello @Vis-á-vis

Thank you so much for the detailed recommendation. Let me tag @ivanptr to make them aware of your suggestions. I totally agree with using acrylic or polymarble bases as it removes the guesswork from your build. If they combine it with an acrylic wall liner it will save them so much work as tiling will no longer be necessary.

Eric

Thanks a lot for all the thought @Vis-á-vis

How can we know if this is due to the failed waterproof membrane at your waste (a puddle flange should be installed under your waste) ? Do you think plumbers can know this by visual inspection? Or they need to use camera for this ?

Last time when we approached plumbers for leaky shower inspection, some just asked us to get help from waterprooferw. But sometimes, the waterproofer asked us to find plumbers..

Is the puddle flange under the waste usually inspected and repaired by plumbers?

Hi @EricL , thanks for the +ve confirmation, then we will definitely do acrylic or polymarble bases.

But now we will try to identify the cause :

First , we will pour a bucket of water to the shower floor (not using the tap) to see if the carpet get wet and it is caused by the defective tile floor.

Second, we will turn on the shower tap filling a bucket, not letting the shower floor get wet. If the carpet is getting wetter , then it can be the tap issue.

What if the leak issue is from the tile floor crack and not from the tap, is there any durable waterproofing epoxy grout from Bunnings that we can use and directly apply them over tiles ?

We will need a temporary fix so we can avoid planning the install of shower bases in a rush.

Any good epoxy waterproofing grout?

https://aus.sika.com/en/construction/tile-stone-installationsystems/tile-grouts/sika-problend-epoxygrout.html

Can we apply this on top of the current epoxy grout ? :

Hi @ivanptr,

I'd suggest you do a visual check of all grout joints between tiles whilst paying particular attention to where the walls meet the floor. Please let us know if you find any cracks and take some pictures. If the silicone/grout around the perimeter of the shower base is degraded, I'd recommend removing it and re-applying a bathroom silicone to those joints. After any repair work is dry, you can paint over the entire shower base and up the walls slightly with Shower Plug. Shower plug is good at covering hairline cracks, and the product will provide a layer that should assist with any water seeping out from between tiles. This is a band-aid solution that could help until you are ready to commit to further work.

The sika product you've linked to is for new installations. I can't see applying it over existing grout doing anything but causing a mess. I'd believe you'd be better off using a bathroom silicone.

Could you provide more detail on this carpet that is getting wet? Is it on the other side of a wall to the shower/taps/shower rose? If so, the first thing I'd be doing is cutting a section of plasterboard away directly above the wet carpet. You can then inspect the timber work, which will likely help you determine where the water is coming from. If there is water dripping/seeping down from above, it could be the taps/shower rose, and if it's only at floor level, seeping out of the shower pan area, then it's likely a failed membrane.

Mitchell

https://youtube.com/shorts/NBbaVvcHD-c?feature=share

Hi @MitchellMc and @Vis-á-vis ,

We have inspected visually and found no cracks -

Floor to wall junction - couldnt find any crack, seems it is sealed with hard epoxy instead of silicone, as when we use fingers to poke at it, it feels solid and not elastic.

Wall to frame junction - degraded with some mould on it (frame on the right):

Floor Grout - seems okay with no crack visually

Grout under the steel frame - this is where we cant inspect, but the grout might be degraded with black mould due to high humidity in the bathroom.

Wastepipe - seems it is minorly clogged but not sure the "a puddle flange, the waterproof membrane" at the waste is failed

Carpet location, shown by this clip :

2 sections (of the plasterboard) on the hallway wall were cut away by the plumber fixing the leaky pipe last year when we moved in. We kept them open in case it leaks again

And then you will see a section of plasterboard directly above the wet carpet were cut by us yesterday:

My family used dehumidifier for a whole night in the room before I cut the plaster board, not easy for me to find any moisture / water behind the board. But I guess I will keep observing this hole after I keep pouring buckets of water to the shower floor.

Other questions we have:

If the floor grout seems fine and doesn't need to be replaced , perhaps we can apply Shower Plug on the floor first to make sure those any super thin crack that we cant see are sealed?

Since we have a bathtub and it is working fine with no leaking trouble like the shower stall does, we are considering to ask plumber to install a shower over bath first, until we have time to plan for the shower stall renovation, is this idea feasible and good?

What do we need to be aware of when asking the plumber for this kind of conversion? (Bath -> Shower over bath)

Many thanks for any ideas and advice.

If you have water outside of your shower in your carpet then you have a leak somewhere. As previously mentioned it could be any number of issues and the remedy is to rip it all out and start again.

Installing a shower over your bath. I'm not sure what "planning" you need to do but you are spending a lot of time investigating and planning other solutions that could be used to address the issue.

Putting a shower over your bath at the opposite end to where the current plumbing is, taking down the wall, waterproofing, installing a screen etc. will be expensive. Plus, you will have a window effectively in your shower which will collect water in the frame.... it is nearly as bad an idea as having a live electrical appliance on a shelf above your bath.

@ivanptr,

If you can't see any visual cracks in the tile grout, then Showerplug will not resolve the issue. Having a saturated carpet means a significant amount of water is coming from somewhere. This could be a pipe leak, or the membrane has failed. This might be a silly question, but has anyone recently replaced taps or tap washers in the shower? I once encountered a similar situation where someone had forgotten to replace the spindle washer, and the carpet on the opposite side of the wall was getting saturated. A plumber, painter and builder had all missed/couldn't diagnose the issue. I went out to the property to assist the elderly customer because he was desperate. It took all of five minutes to work out where the water was coming from.

Is the carpet damp at all directly behind where the vanity is? Given the water connections there and not being too far away, that could be another possible leak location.

Mitchell

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/t5/Whole-of-House/How-to-waterproof-and-repair-a-damp-corner-of-the-floor/m-p/102315#M12083

@Vis-á-vis , you could visit the above link for the experience we had last time

what we mean by "plan" for this time is,

if we want to remove the shower and install a new shower base, and redo all the waterproofing work (like the process you outlined🙏) ,

the time and effort to find a reliable plumber, communicate with him about our expectation, and getting quotes, and make sure I will be on the site when he does all the work,

perhaps it is easy for many people.

But its not easy for us, you could visit our older post - how we hired a plumber to install an ag drain but end up they leaving a huge mess for us..

1）They promised in the email for three times to waterproof the foundation corner of our bedroom before laying the agdrain, but they didnt

2) We placed a lot of tarps at the backyard , and also informed them by email, to dump all the clay soil from the excavation to the tarp. They also acknowledged that.

But i dont know why, they just dumped all the mud and clay soil on our new lawn......and even use compactor on the muddy clay soil above our new lawn...... its a nightmare

We have learnt a huge lesson, this is the house of my very old parents, and I wasnt been able to be there on the day when the plumber came.

And I should have been more patient when finding good plumbers for this kind of bigger job, should have gotten advice from more plumbers and should have received recommendation for good plumbers from our neigbours, Instead of trying to hire someone in a rush

We actually could have brought this issue to Fair Trade and asked for compensation or refund, as we have all the documentation of what they promised. But we are so busy fixing what they have caused.

Last weekend I went back to my parents house, and digged out all the compacted clay soil (its around 0.5 cubic meters) , and replace it with new soil and relay all the turf......

It is exhausting, as they used compactor to compact all the muddy clay On our lawn.

This time, we will get someone to install a shower base for sure as a long term solution like @EricL and you suggested, but for this type of more complicated job , it will take time for us to plan and make sure its done properly🥲

In the meanwhile, we will need to fix the leaky shower temporarily.

https://www.ryanoldplumbing.com.au/plumber/leak-detection/

Thanks @MitchellMc , I have asked my parents who are now living there, they didnt mess with the tap and spindle washers.

Yes, the carpet is close to vanity as well.

So, how can we check if the pipes connecting to the vanity and showers are leaking?

Hydrostatic pressure testing would be accurate and easy for plumbers to identify the source? Perhaps we need to get plumbers for pipe leak detection first?

________

Could really relate when hearing the frustrating experience of the elderly customer.

It has driven us crazy😂 we wont give up and Will solve this like the elderly customer did.

Hi @ivanptr,

The best advice I can give you is to enlist the services of a plumber that is prepared to assist you with resolving the issue. Not someone who wants to come for a couple of hours call out and then answer that they can't find the problem. However, they might not find the issue even after extensive work and cutting away the entire rear plaster sheets. The amount of money you'd need to invest in tracking down the leak might be better used towards the cost of the shower refit.

Mitchell

https://youtu.be/ekspirzXq1k?t=86

@MitchellMc Wholehearted thanks for the advice.

We have booked one of the local plumbers, so far the best and most caring plumber in our neighbourhood, for an inspection. He doesn't have any employees and wont be free until next weekend but he will be much better than others we came across 😐.

1) On another note, there is a post which we've found quite inspiring:
https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/t5/Bathroom-and-Laundry/Leaking-shower-recess-waterproof-and-retile/m-p/87401

The OP did a water leak dye test for initial leak detection

Any idea what tool could we use to plug the drain?

inflatable plug?

__________________________________

Also, this plumber from Perth used thermal imaging camera and successfully identified the leak behind the tile wall. Seriously considering to buy one :

EricL

Hello @ivanptr

Before making any purchase perhaps your new plumber friend already has this tool in his arsenal? Maybe you can borrow the tool or they can perform the test for you. As for the thermal imaging tool, I strongly suggest seeing if you can rent it from a company that does thermal imaging. It is an expensive tool and you need the experience to use it and make a diagnosis.

If you need further assistance, please let us know.

Eric

@EricL yes, we thought about that too, but we are just not sure how long it takes to do a thorough dye leak test, like, if its a minor leak, then preferably the water should sit overnight ? Err , im gonna ask him if we can borrow the inflatable plug and return it the next day.

And yes, we have just found one company near our suburb which supplies thermal imaging cameras for hire, (rate is $100 per day ) , much cheaper than making a purchase. Gonna rent one to try it and keep you guys updated with our experience .

I have a thermal imaging camera, a Flir E6, the model above the one in the video. I would say this is a minimum for high enough resolution to detect smaller leaks. However, it only gives a general area of moisture. It has significant limitations. That camera cost me $3500 and I'm feeling like I need to upgrade. You already have enough holes in your plaster to do any inspection you need. A thermal imaging camera would normally be used as a non-destructive tool before you remove plaster....a point at which you are already at.

The remedial work for your shower is the same. Regardless of whether you have a failed waterproof membrane, a leak in a pipe or breach requiring plaster coming off, a failure in your waste.....ALL will require a strip-down of the shower and remedial work as previously advised.

You are just wasting time and money that could be put toward a permanent solution.

Hi @MitchellMc ,@EricL and everyone,

Some good news, we did a dye test ourselves with 2cm depth of dye water sitting on the shower floor for 48 hours. No sign of leak to the bedroom at all. No damp carpet!

So the possible causes might be narrowed down to - waste pipe, or shower pipe leak, behind the wall (these will be investigated by our plumber next week) ,

Or : rainwater getting (water ingress) into the bedroom from the outside.

So Im starting a new project to waterproof the foundation side of my parents house. (outside the bedroom)

Material I already bought, as suggested by you guys 😄:

1) 30 Seconds 2L Spray And Walk Away

2) Crommelin 4l exterior grade brushable-waterproofer

Planning:

1) Use wired brush and Walk Away Spray to clean the mould off the brick wall ( tried this product on the other side before, incredible outcome!)

2) Already digged a trench - But how much vertical depth of the foundation should I waterproof ?

(I just have time to do this tonight , the photos are a bit blurry. But I will snap better pictures in daytime)

3. I dont have high pressure washer, but i have a garden hose. Now there are some silt/dirt covering the foundation, I might use a brush first, then spray water to clean it?

4. After the cleaning process, I reckon I should wait for 7 days for the foundation to dry out completely, before applying any waterproofer?

5. Backfill - is it better to backfill the trench with sand? seems the permeability of sand is much better than our soil (some are clay soil), higher permeability -> Faster evaporation?

What soil / sand can we order from landscape company and the best material to put next to the foundation?

(Before completion, I will cover the foundation side and trench with some tarps in case of bad weathers)

Did I miss anything in this initial plan? any advice greatly appreciated

Hope this project will be easy with no drama and I can post the outcome here.

Cheers,

Ivan

Hi @ivanptr,

Typically, there will be a damp course line in your bricks, preventing moisture from being wicked up through the wall. This line usually is positioned one course above soil level. Any amount of waterproofing you can do below the soil level will help prevent water ingress. However, just applying a membrane to that outside face of the wall will only do so much. I recommend you scrub any loose dirt off the wall before applying the waterproofer. If you can borrow a pressure washer or consider purchasing a budget-friendly option, that would be your best bet. You'll need to follow the application directions on the container, and allowing the wall to dry out completely would be a great idea.

I'd suggest you paint the bricks you've already exposed and then install a slotted drain coil along the wall as a secondary measure. This will drain any water away that hits the wall instead of it just pooling at your foundations. The drain coil's trench only needs to be 100mm wide and can be backfilled with aggregate.

Please keep us updated and reach out if you have further questions.

Mitchell

Ok @MitchellMc , I will get a high pressure washer, thanks again for the reminder

And my trench is not deep enough too

"Dig a 120mm wide trench hard up against the wall to a depth of 600mm."

Now my trench is only about 120mm deep, so im going to dig more.

And i want to connect the next ag drain to the one we have just installed. But to do this, we need to relocate the downpipe first.

Update: Have just bought a mattock , it makes the digging way easier. Should hv bought this earlier. Spade and shovel are difficult to use for compacted clay soil full of rocks.