Hi all,
I bought some food dye to perform the toilet cistern test to see if water is leaking into the bowl but I've come across a handful of articles like this https://www.kingscotechemicals.com/diy-dye-leak-test-for-toilets/#:~:text=Dye%20leak%20tests%20for%20toilets,and%20intended%20to%20detect%20leaks.
That basically say either the test doesn't work or special dye is required. I've searched Bunnings for this dye online and come up with nothing.
Anyone more knowledgeable able to advise me?
Community manager's note: Check out How to fix a leaking toilet for expert advice.
Hello @rosharch
It's fantastic that you've received excellent advice from my colleague @MitchellMc. As he has mentioned in his recommendation, if the water stops leaking into the pan when the inlet is turned off, it is an inlet valve failure. His suggestion of changing the inlet valve seal is spot on. However, if the water continues to leak even with the inlet valve off it is the flush valve seating washer that needs to be replaced.
In this instance, there is the possibility of debris being stuck inside the inlet valve. I suggest taking it apart and inspecting the seating area of the valve. Once you've ruled that possibility out, I suggest testing the system again and seeing if you continue to have a leak. Once you've eliminated that as the cause of failure the only other washer to replace is the flushing valve.
Here is a handy link for Fluidmaster: How to remove the cap of Fluidmaster.
If you need further assistance, please let us know.
Eric
Welcome to the Bunnings Workshop community. It's fantastic to have you join us, and thank you for sharing your question about how to detect a toilet leak.
The food dye technique is a tried and tested method for detecting leaks. You need to put in at least 25 drops of either the blue or green food dye to make sure the cistern is saturated. If you have a leak you'll see the water in the pan change colour. The testing period will usually last anywhere from 10 to 15 minutes and you'll be able to see the results.
If the bowl is anything other than clear water, then there is a leak in your cistern. I recommend changing the flushing seal at the bottom of the flush assembly. My number one tip is to bring the flushing assembly with you to the store to make sure that you purchase the correct fitting seal.
Thank you for the reply. Is the colour of the dye important? I have red at home...
Hi @rosharch,
You maybe could try using something like good old Harpic Bloo toilet cleaner, I'm not sure if you can still buy that in Australia, you can here in New Zealand.
Two things that you can check however, that will cause this to happen and waste a lot of water during the day and night.
Is the cistern the type that has a ball-cock valve assembly inside it?
A picture of the internals of the cistern you have would be awesome!
This is recognisable by an arm with a big plastic ball at the end of a metal arm that comes out of the valve, where the water is fed into the cistern.
Does this close off, fully?, you will hear and see water issuing from the bottom of the valve, if this is not the case.
If the valve doesn't fully close, either the ball has a hole on it and has let water in, meaning it doesn't float on top of the water anymore, like it should.
If the ball is actually floating and the valve is slightly open, allowing water to be fed into the cistern, you can try gently bending the arm upwards at it's centre point to close the valve.
If this still doesn't close the valve fully, there may be some grit or a small stone jammed in the valve itself, preventing the valve from closing.
Secondly, there may be a small stone or some grit under the actual flushing valve in the cistern itself, preventing it from fully closing, it doesn't take much at all to stop this from sealing and this will in turn keep the cistern filling to make up the loss of water that gets fed to the toilet pan, un-necessarily, I might add.
Try these simple things and get back to us as to how things went.
We're more than willing to help you out.
Cheers,
Mike T.
Hi @rosharch
The colour red will do just fine, blue and green are just suggestions. Make sure to try out @MikeTNZ's troubleshooting recommendations. If it's just a rock or debris that's caught on the edge of the flusher or the inlet valve that would save you a trip to the store.
Please keep us updated with your progress, we look forward to hearing that your cistern is fixed.
Thanks for the detailed trouble shoot...it's not a ball valve. It's one I installed from Bunnings a couple of years ago...but I'm unsure where to look for grit?
Hi thanks for the clarification. I'm not 100% sure where to look for grit or stones but to my eye there doesn't appear to be any. I attached pics of the valve in my reply to @MikeTNZ
Meanwhile, here's the results of the dye test. I'd say we have a problem
It could be the inlet valve seal or the flush valve washer. Turn the water off at the mini cistern cock next to the toilet. This turns off the water to the cistern and eliminates the inlet valve as a consideration. If the dye continues to flow into the pan, you need to replace the flush valve seating washer. You must remove the flush valve assembly to access the washer at the bottom.
If the dye stops leaking into the pan after turning the water off to the cistern, it's the inlet valve seal. That's a simple fix. Just pop the black cap off the inlet valve on the right and replace the rubber valve.
Given the flush valve's vintage, I suspect its washer is the culprit. Have a look to see if you can find some clips that, when released, allow you to pull the assembly out.
Let me know how you go, and I can guide you through the replacement process.
Mitchell
Hi Mitchell,
Thanks for the detailed reply!
Turning off the water to the cistern resulted in almost all the red dye remaining in the cistern itself. There was some small amount of red dye in the bowl but seeing as before it was a continuous flow of dark red, I'm going with inlet valve seal.
Do you think it needs replacing seeing as I bought the entire valve and seal from Bunnings only a year ago? Is it perhaps just an adjustment that needs to be made?
I am so glad to see that @MitchellMc @EricL and @MikeTNZ were able to help with your toilet seal issue. Eric will be online later this afternoon and will be able to further assist you with your Bunnings valve and seal question. If you ever have further D.I.Y. questions, feel free to reach out.
Katie
Thanks again for the links. I flushed the inlet valve and checked fir debris and it seems fine. I've now purchased a replacement valve seal from my local Bunnings and I'll install today and update you
But...more problems have occurred. In mucking around with the inlet valve, the cistern moved and I'm now getting a slow leak from the bottom of the cistern, running down the pipe that connects it to the bowl. Are you able to advise on how I can solve this one too please?
Pics attached
It appears that there has been an issue in the past with a leak at that location as someone has applied Teflon tape to the area. They've likely done this to try and stem a leak, as no Teflon tape is needed for that connection. In order to repair that junction, I suggest using a Kinetic 50mm Flush Pipe Ring. I suspect that the original pipe ring has deteriorated and instead of replacing it they just used Teflon tape which is a stop-gap measure. Putting in a new pipe ring will seal the join completely without the need for Teflon tape.
Hi Eric,
I just bought the ring, but taking it apart I'm unsure it will fit? The Bunnings ring seems much smaller and thinner without the attachable end?
What do you think?
My sincerest apologies, I was under the impression that your toilet being a Caroma uses standard fittings, but it seems you have a much older version installed. The part you are after is called the "Caroma Flushpipe Reducing Rubber 50mm X 40mm". It has a very specific look and is not your usual-looking flush pipe ring. In the meantime, I suggest re-assembling the unit so that you can use the toilet. If you wish, you can add more plumber's tape to stave off the leak. This part will need to be ordered at the special orders desk. I've placed a few images below to help the team at the desk order it for you.
The first photo is of the top of the ring and the second is of the bottom of the ring.
Not a problem, Eric...seems to be a real trial and error process. I didn't open the other ring, so that can easily be returned.
I'll order this new version tomorrow.
In the meantime I'll try installing the new flush valve washer to see if that stops flow into the bowl
Please keep us in the loop, we look forward to hearing the results of your repair work on the flush valve.
Hi again @EricL
Inlet valve seal didn't work but a new flush valve washer did. Was a bit worried since it seemed really tight and didn't sit flat, curling up due to tightness..but it's stopped the leak!
Thank you so much to you and @MitchellMc and others for the patience of talking me through this. Very much appreciated
Now I'm waiting on the special orders desk to get back to me about the Flushpipe ring. They couldn't order it without the item number but said they'd follow up with the supplier. That was 3 days ago now
Glad you're making progress on this @rosharch and I hope you hear back from the special orders desk soon. This thread has been a great learning experience.
I apologise that you haven't heard back from your local store's Special Orders team yet. I've looked into this for you, and the product number of that spare part is 220212 and is available through Caroma.
I'll contact you via private message for some additional details and will speak with our in-store to make sure this order is processed.
Hi again, @rosharch,
The team at Bunnings Hawthorn now has all the details they need to order the item and will be in touch with you shortly.
Many thanks for your patience.
Mitchell, you're a legend. Thank you for following this up for me! I wasn't sure how to progress from there.
Many thanks for the assistance.
Since you were able to help me solve the previous issue, I was wondering if you might have advice on something that's resulted from the work.
Ever since I turned the water off to fix the toilet, the flow of cold water to the shower has become a drizzle while the hot water remains strong. Flushing the toilet with the shower running makes this even worse, whereas before this wasn't the case. I left it a few days hoping it might self correct but it's continued.
Any thoughts?
Two steps forward, hey @rosharch!
It sounds like you might have air stuck in the pipes, but make sure the obvious culprit isn't the cause, have another check of the mains valve to ensure that it is fully open. Next, start by turning on all the hot and cold water taps in the house and garden, including the shower and flush the toilet a few times during this process. We must try to clear the air out and fill the pipes with water. Let the water run for at least five minutes. If you hear any spluttering, this is a good sign so leave the water running until it stops completely. After the five minutes, begin closing the taps starting with the lowest tap and furthest away from the mains. Work your way back towards the main and leave the highest taps like the shower until last.
If that doesn't resolve the issue, try the process again a couple more times. If it's still not resolved, let us know, and we can troubleshoot further.
This is gold Mitchell, thank you.
I've already done a bit of mucking about with different taps to see if I can get the air unstuck but not to this level. I'll have a crack with this level of detail and see how I go!
I could be way wrong here, but I think the issue you have, is central to the highest point in your plumbing system on the cold water side.
Reason I say that is because, in a water feed system any air trapped in that system should always be at the top of it.
Is your plumbing system fed via a tank in the roof or a mains pressure system, fed via an "Ajax" pressure reducing valve?
What I've had in the past is, to get a plumber to fit a tee into the water feed and also fit a vertical piece of pipe facing vertically out of that tee and then a non-return/check valve, so that when the pressure builds, it allows the air to escape.
You will also need a tube that comes out of the top of the valve, that goes somewhere where the water won't cause any damage when various taps and what-not are opened and closed in the house.
This sort of thing is almost like trying to get a water pump to "prime", if there is air in the system, that will not happen and it will run continuously until it burns out or actually primes.
I hope that this is of some use to you, if not, ask some further questions, I'm more than willing to help.
Haha, yeah one step back
So I've given it a few goes now and there wasn't any spluttering. I leave the cold shower tap as the last to turn off and by that point it's always a sad drizzle of water even if that tap is turned full bore.
I'm in an apartment of 8 apartments and I was only turning on the outside tap nearest our cold water mains...I realised there's another outdoor tap on the other side of the building. I might give that a go tomorrow as well, turning on both outdoor taps as well as the 6 indoor ones.
Mains pressure I believe, Mike. Apartment block of 8
I may get a plumber out to do just as you suggest eventually, though I'm hoping to somehow sort the issue myself if at all possible. The shower is still useable...we just need to change the way we turn on the taps in order to get the temp right.
Thank you for posting an update on your cold water issues. Is the cold water pressure slow in the rest of the house or just in the shower? If it is in just the shower I suspect that there might be something blocking the outlet of the cold spindle. However, if the low pressure is uniform around the rest of the house there could possibly be something slowing down the cold water entering the house. I suggest engaging the services of a registered plumber.
Ah, ok @EricL . I was afraid it might come to that, I was hoping since this was caused by turning off the mains when fixing the toilet it would be a simple fix.
It's only the cold water in the shower, the cold water to the other two taps (kitchen and bathroom sink) are fine.
If I only turn on the cold water to the shower, the water is at first full blast but then it dwindles to a dribble in seconds.
Update: another all round "flush" of all the taps and suddenly the cold water isn't just running properly in the shower...it's stronger than ever.
Another problem solved on The Bunnings Workshop forum. Thank you @MitchellMc for that tip! More $ saved.
Now I just need to order and install the new Caroma Flushpipe Reducing Rubber with the special orders people
