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Best timber clear coat?

I have just purchased a 3 piece gravity feed spray gun kit (Ozito) to spray timber pieces done by lathe or scroll saw and need to know the best clear coat finish to use on the timber. Preferably gloss finish, oil based or water based recommendations please.

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MitchellMc

Welcome to the Bunnings Workshop community @Philip49. It's terrific to have you join us, and many thanks for your question about selecting varnishes.

I'd encourage you to test a few different products using a brush and determine what your preference is. You can then use your selection in the spray gun for similar but finer results. The choice of varnish is heavily dependent on your preferences and the look you're going for. If you are after a suggestion, I don't think you can go wrong with Cabot's 1L Oil Based Cabothane Clear Polyureth a ne Timber Varnish. It's a hard-wearing and durable coating that's resistant to scratching and it will enhance the timber grain of your timber pieces. I'd say that's a good starting point.

Let me mention a couple of our woodworking enthusiasts, @woodenwookie, and @r23on to see if they have any thoughts.

Please let me know if you have any questions.

Mitchell

r23on

I would agree 100% with Mitchell on a few test sections first on the timber you will use I use a Feast Watsons poly wipe for most of my work. But do the test pieces first.

PeterEllis49

I am also interested in information regarding what clear finish to use in my case on Australian hardwood interior furniture. My most recent experience with finishing hardwood timber was with Cabots water based finish. This produced a satisfactory outcome. I picked Cabots because it was by far the most expensive and hence hopefully the best quality (not the most logical reasoning!); and water based because cleaning brushes, etc with turps is always a pain.

However your recommendation was for OIL BASED Cabots ($57 /litre). You also referred to @r23on who recommended OIL BASED Feast Watsons poly wipe (which is a bit cheaper ($50/litre)).

A few questions:

Q1 given that both recommendations are for oil based, what are the advantages over water based?

Q2 if I go oil based the Feast Watsons is a bit cheaper but I need to be able to apply with a brush, but their site does not mention brush application being OK. Whereas on the Bunnings details it states “BRUSH, 6-10mm nap roller or pad applicator”. Is brush OK?

I also note that the details on the Bunnings site also differ to their site eg with respect to dying time between coats, etc. Further the only review suggested that the reviewer's 1 litre can only contained 750ml!

Q3 there are other water and oil based finishes available ex Bunnings which cost $30-36 per litre. What are the advantages of Cabots and Feast Watson compared with these cheaper finishes which justify spending extra?

MitchellMc

Hi @PeterEllis49,

There's a bit to unpack there. Can I ask if there is any reason not to continue using the water-based Cabots product? I use it extensively and found that it applies well, provides a durable finish, doesn't smell and cleans up well.

In most situations, especially when I know someone wants an easy cleanup, I recommend water-based products. In this case, my recommendation for oil-based was likely due to @Philip49 mentioning it before water-based, so I simply chose that as the suggestion. Durability-wise, there's not much of a difference. Oil-based can tend to yellow more than water-based, and if I have to choose between water or oil, I'll go with the water-based 99% of the time. However, I recently went for an oil-based (not Cabot's) for a coffee table as I was instructed that a high-gloss was needed. Typically, you can get a higher sheen from oil-based. Though I found it much more difficult to apply, it smelt strongly, and I just threw my cheapish brushes out as I didn't want to have to clean them.

So, back to my original question, unless there is a reason to switch to the oil, I'd stick with the water-based versions.

The Feast Watson 1L Satin Wipe On Poly is specifically designed to be a wipe-on product. I do see the product page suggests it can be brushed or rolled on, but I've checked the product data sheet, and it's not mentioned there. I'll have our team update the webpage to reflect that it is a rag application only. You could try to brush it on, but the consistency of the finish would be unknown. Their Feast Watson Gloss Clear Varnish would be the brushable version. Perhaps @r23on might be able to let us know of their experience with the product and whether they've had success brushing it on.

I'm seeing six hours after the initial coat before the second on both the Bunnings page and Feast Watsons. I'm not seeing this review, so I'm starting to think we might be looking at different products here. If there was less than the stated quantity in a can, I'd recommend returning it for another one, as they should all have one litre in them. A team member can check this for you before purchase.

All our finishes are all of good quality, with some brands providing a slightly higher quality, durability and ease of application. In saying that, the difference between a $36 can and a $39 can would likely be indistinguishable. It also comes down to personal preference and your application style. Some people like a thicker product that they can apply one coat then spread around and be done. Others like a thinner product that they can build up in layers. I personally don't like thicker products and would much prefer to do several coats and sand them in between to achieve an exceptional finish with no defects. Someone that only wants to do one coat would interpret a thin product as like 'water'. It is really about finding a product that works for you and sticking with it. For me, it's Cabot's Cabothane water-based.

Please let me know if you have any questions.

Mitchell

r23on

Hi interesting discussion.

First up I have used a range of water based products and have never found them to be what I am looking for in a finish. it must be kept in mind that timber does not like water and takes a longer drying time, plus the fibres in the grain have a tendency to sit up much higher after applying the water base product giving me more work to do in clean up. I always found brushing water based clear finish leaves brush marks no matter the quality of the brush and have not found a good wipe on water base. Then again I have not looked. Wipe on poly is exactly what it states Wipe ON not brush on, not spray on and not roller.

To get the best possible finish each coat must be sanded with a fine grain sanding papers ie. 600 grit to 1200 grit yes that is the extreme but that’s what i want. I have not been able to achieve the above with water based product even after several days to dry. Also keep in mind that not all timbers are the same. However I have used water base products to seal the end grain of my timber, No fibres to stand up.

As a point of interest I use metho when sanding or to clean my material.Water cause the fibres stand up. Metho was used by the old time painter as they did not have a long time for the timber to dry.

Timber has a longer internal drying time when water based products are used. Solvent based products have better dry time as the solvent evaporates.

I must stress this is what I have experienced with both products. I am sure someone will have had different experiences.

Finally I use wipe on as I can control the amount of product applied to the job.

Water based products are about environmental issues.

I am not going into the pros and cons of each as they both have pros and cons. It’s a matter of what do you want of your finish .

PeterEllis49

Thank you Mitchell and r23on for your detailed responses to my questions.

In summary I have decided to stick with the Cabots water based I used on my earlier project.

For the outcome I am looking for there does not appear to be any advantages to oil based, and I had seen other advice that suggested that oil based tends to yellow more as you mentioned Mitchell.

A couple of comments:

Counter to re23on’s comments, I though one of the advantages of the water based was quicker drying time to it being “torch/bug proof” and to recoating. Cabots quotes 6 hours to recoat their oil based compared to 2 hours for their water based.
Metho for prepainting dust removal was my father’s method and I have always followed his approach

Thanks again I will move forward to finishing my project with a bit more confidence.

MitchellMc

That's the amazing thing about the Workshop community, @PeterEllis49, and the exposure to our members' different experiences. @r23on is a very experienced woodworker, and I have no doubt that he's provided an excellent summary of his knowledge and use of the products.

I wouldn't suggest going against the recommendations of Cabot's, but on a side note, on a warm day, I'll have three coats of the water-based on within two hours, which have been sanded in between. From my experience, their water-based product is touch-dry within 15-20min if it's in the sun, and I'll be giving it a quick sand with 480-grit to knock off any rough spots shortly after that.

I just wanted to clarify my comment about oil-based products tending to yellow more. That's not really correct with current technology. Older oil-based products certainly had this issue. Now, they don't really yellow so much; they just have more of a golden hue to them. Even out of the can, an oil-based product can look more like a honey colour, whereas water-based tend to be more clear.

Mitchell

r23on

As I stated interesting discussion and exposes other points that are not taken into account which I suggest most either do not know about or just don’t care about and since moving to Darwin I have had to re-evaluate how I do things. They take in things such as environmental conditions, availability of timbers dry / cure times with each of the materials in use and not excluding the the hardness of the material and its ability to absorb the coating being applied.

What happen on the south and east coast does not happen here in the NT and various parts of the NT As an example during the build up and the wet season, both water based and oil based dry times need to be considered, its the cure time which is more important to me and the project I am working on.

Great point re the colour of poly wipe and the difference between the water based product. Up here poly wipe goes or has a more yellow appearance at a faster rate due to the humidity. As a point of interest with oils based products, solvents have been removed from most oil base products due to environmental issues. A discussion point for the experts.

I must point out since coming to the NT I have not bothered to use water based products because of the issued i have had with water based finishes.

To achieve the results I am looking for with oils based polys I put the solvent back into the product. Yes it does reduce the thickness of the product but works in my favour.

As for wood turning I use the same approach. scroll saw work the only concerns for me are the exposed end grain.

A question for Peter what timbers are you turning?

I would also like to hear from someone form here in the Territory and the issued they have experienced

Thanks for the discussion

Ron

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