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Can you lay hardwood flooring over yellow-tongue?

We've had to remove some baltic pine flooring, 150mm wide 20 thick from parts of our house in order to make some sub-floor repairs.

We're putting yellow-tongue down in some parts of the house to carpet over. We would like to replace the floorboards in other areas, but some of most of those have damaged T&G from removal and varying amounts of borer damage.

I'm wondering if it's plausible to lay down r-flor yellow tongue and then lay the floorboards over top, and if so, what the best process/materials might be.

(First off, R-flor rather than regular yellow-tongue because it provides some relief from sub-floor moisture and a little insulation. I don't want to put insulation between joists because there's already not much sub-floor void to speak of ... We're putting in a sub-floor ventilation system to reduce moisture under there and I want to maximise air space for that to work its magic.)

Looking for relatively cheap solutions, we thought putting yellow-tongue down might mean we can take some liberties in placing floorboards above where the T&G is damaged. We also wouldn't need to find lengths to meet joists. But I'm wondering if this is common practice, and if so, what the considerations are? Glue and screw down? Vapor moisture barrier required between the two layers? Some other underlay? Gaps for expansion?

We're in Melbourne, the weather is variable and the place has a lot of issues. We're looking for a best fit, pretty cheap solution.

Appreciate any suggestions!

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EricL

Hello @dang-ouch-tim

Thanks for sharing your question about your flooring. If you are referring to the STRUCTAflor 19 x 3600 x 800mm R-Flor H2 YellowTongue, please note that it is 19mm thick and this additional thickness will have an effect on your floor transitions and door openings. This is on the condition that you'll be laying floorboards above it. Have you considered not putting the floorboards on top and just carpeting over the YellowTongue?

This would save you from having to change your door heights and reduce the work on room transitions. This would technically provide you with a mid to long term repair option and you can place your floorboards in storage until you are ready to do a full floor renovation. If you are thinking about doing a patch repair where part of the timber flooring is to be removed and replaced with YellowTongue, it is technically possible but will not look nice.

Here is a link to the STRUCTAflor brochure: R-Flor Installation guide

Let me call on our experienced members @Nailbag and @Dave-1 for their recommendations.

If you have any other questions we can help with, please let us know.

Eric

Dave-1

Afternoon @dang-ouch-tim

I had to look up the R-flor as I hadnt heard of it. 🙂 My thoughts follow along the same lines of @EricL height wise if you do so. I wouldnt be taking off height from the joists either. The carpet over the yellowtounge and floorboards souinds liek a good go to option until you have stockpiled enough boards to fill the holes you want.

I see floor boards of various sizes posted fro free as people renoavte, also there are some recylers of building materials down Melbourne way that may help you out with replacements.

I have only replaced one piece of floor board after removeing a baseboard from a wall. I had to shim the new/secondhand piece in but it works well. The main thing I was after was the coluring to match and not the tounge or groove. Going through your questions I just realised that you have a carpeted are and you want to replace some of teh tounge and groove! 🙂 How much damage with the borers? Would a product called "Timbermate " fill the holes? I have used it and it was a decent product. With the lengths of timber flooring, if the tounge is missing but otherwise the width is ok I would also reuse those pieces.

Last idea. For the room that you have the yellowtounge in, are there floorboards in that room? If so maybe remove the boards gently and reuse them for the patches you want?

Dave

dang-ouch-tim

Thank you both @EricL and @Dave-1 for your helpful suggestions.

To clarify a couple of things here and ask a couple further questions, if that's okay ....

- After pulling up floorboards throughout the house, we think we have enough to cover the spaces - hallway, living room - where we want to replace. We'll use something like Timbermate to repair.

- And sorry, it wasn't about doing patch-repairs where we alternate yellowtongue and flooring, which i agree would like awful - so much as wanting to lay down yellow-tongue and place floorboards over the top. Like an overlay flooring, just with full thickness floorboards.

- Unfortunately, this house has had some rough things going on. I'm afraid this will likely be its last re-flooring, to live in for a few years before (I imagine) it is sold and knocked down. It's now or never for these floorboards!

Questions:

- I'm mostly curious whether there would be any technical reason not to lay 20mm floorboards over yellow-tongue in a way that allows for expansion and wouldn't be noisy? Is there a strategy for gluing and screwing them in place? Vapour barrier or underlay underneath? I imagine this would be the same process as you would do with 14mm overlay boards over a sub-floor surface?

- On transitioning bedrooms which have carpet to floorboarded hallways... I'm a little confused how to make that measurement.
Is there an accepted standard for how carpeted floors should meet floorboards? For example, if I include the height of the carpet and carpet underlay in the floor height, there is only a 3mm difference, that could be made up by using thicker redtongue in the carpeted areas.

39mm floor height in the hallway/living room = 19mm yellowtongue and 20mm floorboards

36mm floor height in the carpeted areas = 19mm yellowtongue, 10mm carpet underlay and 7mm carpet (becomes 39mm if we use redtongue, for example)

But getting technical, carpet and carpet underlay is way squishier than hard floors! Would the aim be for floorboards to come to the level of the carpet underlay?

Thank you once again 🙂

Dave-1

Evening @dang-ouch-tim

I dont see a problem with floorboards over the yellowtongue. Vaporwise or any other reason. I had presumed that houses may have that already. All your doors will have to be shortened to accomodate the new floor height. As for the difference in height then I would be using some shaped dowl or Floor Trim to transition between the slightly different levels. Also consider the front door and back door plus any sliding doors.

Even if the floorboards are at end of life as in they have been sanded a few times then the boards themselves can be replaced. It will cost but the boards are only sitting on the joists. Only thing that would be modified are the walls that run across the floorboards is all. Still possible to cut and provide additional supports. A flooring company is the way id go for that level of replacement. Tho if the house has had some rough travelings 😕 Always want to repair that 🙂 but sometimes it just isnt possible.

Dave

EricL

Hello @dang-ouch-tim

Since the YellowTongue will serve as a moisture barrier, I don't see any reason why you can't lay the timber flooring directly over it. If the original flooring was nailed in, I recommend following that installation method. This would be a good time to make observations if the original flooring had expansion gaps at the end or if they were pushed right up to the edge of the wall.

In regards to flooring transition, when crossing over the gap between the timber and carpet flooring, you'll be able to notice if there is height difference. But if it is negligible an ordinary aluminium transition piece should suffice. There are a few styles available, I suggest visiting your local store to see which one suits your needs.

If you need further assistance, please let us know.

Eric

dang-ouch-tim

Great, thank you both again 🙂 @EricL and @Dave-1 This is all very helpful.

Working in our favour, all the internal doors have an enormous gap underneath! This will be like pulling up their socks!

EricL

Hi @dang-ouch-tim

Please don't forget to post a photo update. I'm sure our members will be keen to see the final results of the floor revamp.

Eric

Nailbag

Hi @dang-ouch-tim

Ultimately your end result needs to provide a seamless transition from room to room regardless of the covering. Any patch repairs, replacements and new works should be designed with that in mind to achieve continuity throughout the home. So, with that in mind I would be definitely considering @EricL suggestion of putting the floorboards on top and just carpeting over the YellowTongue. Any height transition thats more than a few mm's will be an obstacle hazard and this would eliminate that danger.

In answering your question, no it's not common practice, unless its a quick fix to sell, but then its at a detriment to the sale. Also don't be overly to concerned about the varying temperatures in Melb to that extent of expansion/contraction. Despite daily seasons, the extreme changes that actually influence structural change aren't that extreme.

Appreciating keeping costs to a minimum, also keep focus on the practicality of the finished level.

Hope that helps.

Nailbag

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