China Cabinet, what stain and varnish?

This is my new project. Just restoring it. I stripped the veneer off the top last night. I also took out the broken glass panel from the door and the smaller broken panel on the left side.

I'm just wondering what stain and varnish to get for the finish? Below is a chart for wood types. I'm look for a light yellow birch finish. I think that is the closest match to the color. What do you think?

images (46).jpeg

There are some minor scratches and scuffs on other parts of the cabinet. I am actually reluctant to touch it. No sanding back if not needed. I'm wondering if I should use a mixture of actually just rubbing some if the scratches out with a microfibre cloth and a liquid solution I have here?

For the deeper scratches and scuffs I'm not sure what to do yet. Any suggestions? Remember it is veneer. Thank you.

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You'll find a lot of antique furniture is French polished with a shellac-based product. Are you looking to match the un-coated timber colour or the existing colour on the unit's front? If you want to keep the timber's natural colour, you will apply an un-tinted clear coat similar to Cabothane. This process would involve sanding the existing coating off the entire unit before coating. This will ensure all finishes are uniform. If you don't want to sand the heavy scratches out, you can try Waxstix to disguise them.

To restore this unit to original, I believe the method would be to sand the entire cabinet with a 180/240 grit sandpaper and then apply a French polish.

Let me mention @APEX_Restore to see if they can offer any advice.

Mitchell

Hi Mitchell,

Thank you for all this info. I've worked out which way is preferable for me to go with this info and will do the job very nicely I believe. I am looking to match the existing timber on the units front.

I stripped the veneer last night off the top and am going to sand back today.

That's sounds great @Wouldy.

I would advise doing a test section with a small amount of product in an inconspicuous location whatever finish you choose. If the stain isn't what you wanted, you can return it and select another one.

Please keep us updated, as I'm sure our members will be interested to see how your project turns out.

Mitchell

I actually haven't worked out which stain yet @MitchellMc .Sometimes I get things delivered to my house so I have to select online.

I will definitely do updates.

Looking at the top of the cabinet I can see some light oil stains from possibly candles and lotions that were placed on top of this unit. Perhaps a light furniture cleaner to perhaps remove the stains and to at least bring uniformity to the finish to the top of the cabinet. Very practical suggestions from @MitchellMc I would test before committing.

Red

Cheers @redracer01

Wouldy

I did a spot test with some timber protect golden oak stain and varnish I had. Had to do a few coats. It has come close but it is not a match. I have a feeling that I may need to mix two stains together to get a match. Is that doable? This is the difficult challenge out of the whole project I think.

I think I am going to try this product from timber protect.

Timber Protect 250ml Oil Based Light Walnut One Coat Stain And Varnish (bunnings.com.au)

I can then put a French polish on top and see how it turns out. For me sanding back the entire thing wasn't really something I wanted to do as there are parts that are in pretty good condition. May still apply wax stick.

Also when I removed the veneer last night, I decided against the wet towel and iron method to soften the glue and make the veneer easily removable. It can make the wood bow and I really did not want that. I did not have a heat gun and I didn't want to automatically sand it. I removed the veneer on the top with a simple screwdriver and rubber mallet. It was a fair bit of work. Today, I sanded the top back using 80 grit. I am yet to go over it with 120 grit. I have to also use wood putty in some parts.

That is how far I have gotten with the project.

You can mix stains and varnishes if they are both water or oil-based. You can not mix them if one is water-based and the other oil-based.

It would be worth looking at Cabot's range of stains and varnish. Our team can tint the Cabot's base colours sold on the shelf into hundreds of different colours. Here's the Cabot's colour visualiser where you can see some options.

Please keep us updated as I trust our members will be interested to see the finished result.

Mitchell

Oh thank you for giving me this extra information. I am using oil base only. I didn't know Bunnings provided this service. It's good to know. Thanks for the link too. I will keep updating as I progress. Having a break today ass too much going on.

Cheers

Wouldy

Planning on heading to Bunnings today. Do you think I should also get the French polish and apply it once I've stained/varnished?

French polish would be a stand-alone finish and is not used in combination with a stain and varnish product. I'd encourage you to work with the stain and varnish products for this project, and in the future, you might like to restore an item with French polish.

Mitchell

@MitchellMc

Thanks for your advice. I wonder what you would suggest for the left panel side of the cabinet. It has come away from the wood and is quite loose. I am not sure if I should go with just super glue or a wood glue? Thank you.

I'd likely need a few more details on the issue to advise on a suitable product @Wouldy. Can you show us which panel is loose and where it has come away?

You might like to consider Selleys 460ml Aquadhere Durabond PVA Wood Glue as it is a polyurethane glue and stronger than standard PVA wood glue.

Mitchell

I actually think that is the best glue you have suggested considering what I will be using it for @MitchellMc

Ok if you take a look at the pictures, you can see that both panels on the side are leadlighted and glass. The panel on the left hand side has actually come away from the wood at the top. So it is interior not exterior. The panel is very loose as a result. I am not sure what caused that to happen, but there is no other damage internally around the area that I can see. So, I just want to secure that panel to the wood before I replace the glass that needs to go back into where there is missing glass. I hope that helps it easier to understand.

Wouldy

If you can squeeze some glue between the panels and then clamp them back into position, I believe it would hold. You might like to add a small Carinya 25 x 25 x 20 x 2mm Zinc Plated Angle Bracket internally, fixed into the top and side panel for additional support.

Mitchell

@MitchellMc

I will consider the brackets. Unfortunately I cannot clamp the panel because there is not an option to clamp it to anything. Just not doable. I do not have a lot of money and I am buying a fair few things today from Bunnings. The glue you suggested I believe would actually be perfect, it just does not suit my price range at the moment.

I have made a mistake. I felt uneasy about doing this. Should have listened to myself. I put a wood filler into chips. I sanded back the other half of the table this morning and of course it has left its white markings behind.

What is left of it of course clogs up my sandpaper. I'm pretty annoyed with myself. I have sandpaper left but want to save that for other jobs to be done.

Any suggestions on how I can fix this, possibly without having to go to Bunnings today.

Can you please let me know what wood filler you've used? Wood filler is normally a soft material that sands easily, and I'm not sure why yours would turn white. Can I also see the sandpaper you are using? If it is a pad for a machine, you can generally wash the clogged material out with warm water and dishwashing detergent and then allow them to dry.

Mitchell

This is what I used. This is what they suggested at Bunnings.

https://www.bunnings.com.au/selleys-50g-knead-it-multipurpose-epoxy-putty_p1230040

I'm using an 80grit sandpaper for an orbital sander. I then changed over to 120 grit.

I'll reach out via PM to get further details.

Mitchell

Hi @MitchellMc and other members.

I bought a waxstik to iron out the tiny little marks on the cabinet. I poilished it out. It does look Ok. I suppose I have a critical eye. I have never really worked with veneer before. I am wondering if one is able to stain and varnish over veneer, or if I would have to strip it back? Either way, I need to make a decision, so I can get this project done. I am on a limited time with it and need to get moving. In light of that, I am just trying to choose the right way to move forward and get it done without creating more work for myself.

Wouldy

As per my initial comment, to restore this unit to original, I believe the method would be to sand the entire cabinet with a 180/240 grit sandpaper and then apply a French polish. Restoring cabinetry like this is an art form that takes many years to learn. It requires the use of advanced techniques and skills in cabinetry restoration. Completely stripping it back to stain and varnish would not be something I would recommend if you are on a limited time frame. Perhaps you might like to show us some updated images of the areas which are now causing you concern.

Mitchell

@MitchellMc

I am at work at the moment so will have to do photos later. If I sand the entire unit back and apply the french polish, I will then have the added step of removing veneer first before doing that. I will send photos later of what it looks like with waxstik before and after.

The veneer is what would receive the French polish. I don't see any need to remove it unless it is damaged and is to be replaced with an equivalent veneer. The veneer is normally a thin layer of costly, beautifully grained and figured timber. Its purpose is to cover the less expensive construction grade timber used to build the carcass.

I look forward to seeing those images.

Mitchell

I am following you now. I am about to go home and take some photos, then I will go to Bunnings. If I do decide to sand it back, I am assuming it will obviously need to be a very light sand with the 180/240 grit, yes?

Wouldy.

After having another think about it, I'd recommend steel wool instead of sandpaper. I feel the sandpaper might be too aggressive. Most marks in French polish reside in the coating layer and not the timber. I'd encourage you to have a look through some YouTube videos on how to restore French polish. They'll be able to demonstrate the process in far more detail than what I can convey in text.

I'll be here over the weekend to answer any questions you have.

Mitchell

Alright I will check out the steel.wool. The first two photos you see is after applying the waxstik and polishing with a soft cloth. The third photo you see is without the waxstik. At this stage I'm thinking it's time for steel wool and French varnish.

I went to Bunnings and got what I needed. I couldn't get the surface restore 250 ml rom feast Watson as it was out of stock. I was going to use it with the steel wool.

I've got most of everything though to do the other things I need to do with it.

Wouldy.

Hi @MitchellMc and @redracer01

I am stuck and feeling very frustrated. I really need to get this done. I have bought timbermate wood filler - pine. I have applied and sanded. Need to do some more sanding.

What is concerning me is that the pine color to match the wood is still just a tad dark. I'm concerned the Cabots Maple Stain and varnish is still not going to conceal the wood filler? I can't do a test because I don't have any test pieces to use.

It may end up being alright. I also bought the feast watson restore and it worked amazingly.

This issue though I need to get soted out quickly. I'm just not sure if it is going to work or not?

I've spent a fair bit on it already. Not keen to spend more. What is your experience if Cabots Maple Stain and Varnish with Timbermate Wood Filler- Pine? If any?

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