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Advice on updating outdoor steps

Hello,

I was just hoping to get some advice on updating the outdoor steps at the back of my house.

These are a bit all over the place, have narrow treads (that are not uniform) and can be a bit slippery and dangerous when it rains (please see photo 1).

I'm installing a deck that will be just above the level of the bottom step (so the bottom step will be covered by the deck), but before installing the deck, I would ideally like to:

Extend the tread on the top step (landing) a little
Extend the tread on the middle step possibly up to where the bottom step currently finishes
Install some stone pavers/tiles (see photo 2 and 3) where the concrete/cement layer (?) on the top and middle step is currently

As I'm planning to do this myself (with my pretty basic skills), I'm wondering if anyone has some advice about the easiest and best way of going of about this?

For instance, would either of these options work well:

1. Remove concrete layer, mortar in additional bricks to extend treads, and then (using mortar) pave/tile directly on brick

2. Keep concrete layer (which isn't particularly level), pour additional new concrete to extend treads, and then (using mortar) pave/tile on concrete.

Or would it be better to demolish the existing steps and start again?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Michael

Photo 1 - Existing steps

Photo 1 - Existing steps

Photo 2 - Example steps with pavers/tiling

Photo 2 - Example paving/tile on steps

Photo 3 - Example steps with paver treadPhoto 3 - Example steps with paving tread

Find more posts tagged with

Decking and Paving

Repairing

Renovation

Comments

EricL

Hello @Michael11

Thank you for sharing your question about your outdoor steps. Since the initial repair of your steps was not ideal, I suggest removing the old concrete and putting on a new layer with the correct height and level. I also suggest factoring in the height of the paver and deck in your repair calculations.

Your current brick steps still look to be in good condition, however, if you feel that a new set of steps would be better for your decking build, I recommend factoring in the time and cost element of adding this extra job to your deck.

Please keep us updated with your progress, we look forward to seeing the start of your project.

Eric

Michael11

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/21043#Comment_21043

Hi Eric,

Thanks so much for your really useful suggestion and advice.

Following on from this, just had a couple of additional follow-up questions. Would you or anyone else have any advice/resources on:

1. Which type of pre-mix concrete to purchase from bunnings (given I will pave/tile over the top)? Quick set? Self-levelling?

2. How to lay the new concrete on the brick steps (once I've removed the old concrete)? Would the process be something like clean bricks, lay formwork, mix concrete (with a bonding additive to help bond to bricks), and then pour concrete (for both steps at the same time or do top step first, wait to dry and then pour middle step etc)?

Any further suggestions/advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again,

Michael

MitchellMc

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/73226#Comment_73226

Hi @Michael11,

To add to @EricL's response, I believe the priority here is to address the inadequate depth of the steps and any safety issues. I suggest going with your original idea of removing the concrete layer, mortaring in additional bricks and creating an adequately sized landing and first step. Two bricks wide would be sufficient. You can add formwork around the now suitably sized landing and step. You'll then be able to pour the concrete to create the pad and step/step riser.

Quick-set Concrete would be suitable for your project, and I'd advise adding reinforcement mesh into the pad and step riser to prevent any chance of it cracking. This reo-mesh needs to be raised, so it sits midway in the concrete. The Quick-set will "self-level" to a certain extent, and you'll need to vibrate the formwork to remove voids. You can hit the formwork with a hammer to settle the concrete.

It would be best if you could pour everything in the one go to achieve a homogenous structure. It will take some forethought on your formwork, but it is achievable. I've created a rendering to assist you with this process. Please note that the step is now three bricks high. Depending on the height of your deck, this should be a reasonable step down onto it.

The process you've laid out for pouring the concrete is spot on.

Please give us a shout if you have further questions.

Mitchell

Michael11

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/100047#Comment_100047

Wow, thank so much for the super helpful advice and rendering Mitchell - really appreciate this!

Thanks again,

Michael

Michael11

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/100047#Comment_100047

Sorry, forgot to ask about what would be the best/easiest way of removing the current concrete layer without damaging the existing bricks?

Any further assistance/guidance would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks so much for all your help.

Thanks again,

Michael

MitchellMc

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/117076#Comment_117076

I'd suggest picking up a masonry bolster and a club hammer @Michael11.

Start at the edges where the concrete meets the brick. Place the bolster on that line and hit it with the hammer. You should be able to separate the concrete or at least compromise the joint. Then, start on the surface and face of the steps and try to chip off concrete segments. Repeat this process and work your way across the steps. Some solid blows with the hammer on the surfaces should help break up the concrete.

If you're not making any headway, picking up a budget-friendly rotary hammer drill would make the job a breeze.

Please let me know if you have further questions.

Mitchell

Michael11

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/126674#Comment_126674

Wonderful - thanks so much Mitchell. This is really helpful!

Thanks again,

Michael

MMF155

@Michael11

No technical advice here… but some practical and style thoughts. I have a real thing about outside steps … especially on new builds - just ask my husband 🙂.

Anyway. The mistake I think often happens is that people create mean little steps that just do the job. They never have any style or actually make using the stairs better. The examples of other steps in the photos you’ve shown illustrate my point. Wider, longer and more balance. Even having a return can look great. Stairs can be a wonderful feature.

If you can I’d think about the proportions and the look in older examples. The brick veneers of the 50s and 60s are full of lovely steps. so that’s my 2bobs. But back to listening to the technical dudes.

Regards

MMF155

Michael11

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/22388#Comment_22388

Thanks so much @MMF155 - really appreciate your thoughtful insights about ensuring both form & function (& will definitely take your thoughts on board)!

Thanks again,

Michael

sudarsoe

@Michael11

Hi Mike.

Have you considered encasing it with wood? (Using composite decking products)

so, the idea is to rest it on the existing concrete steps and anchor it down.

create wooden sleeve like glove for the steps.

just a thought. 🙂

Michael11

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/22402#Comment_22402

Thanks Sudarsoe - really appreciate this. This is a great idea & will also make for some nice consistency with the deck I'm installing (which will have composite boards too)!

Thanks again,

Michael

EricL

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/73898#Comment_73898

Hi @Michael11

Just a friendly reminder that if you are planning on putting composite boards on your steps make sure to put in an air gap so that moisture does not get trapped under the boards. If the moisture gets trapped underneath it will start to develop mould and mildew.

Please keep us updated with your progress, we look forward to seeing the start of your outdoor steps project.

Eric

Michael11

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/100444#Comment_100444

Thanks so much Eric - really appreciate this. Yeah will make sure to include adequate space so there is an air gap!

Actually started to remove what I thought was the overlay layer of concrete but (deceivingly) it turned out that, other than the external facing bricks, the steps are solid concrete, which was difficult to break up even with the rotary hammer drill chisel function (please see attached), so it's back to the drawing board.

Given that I'm installing a deck, I was thinking that I might just use deck framing to extend the middle step out to the bottom step (and place composite decking boards on top), which the deck will butt up against and be at the height of the current bottom step.

To do this, would I essentially do something like the following:

create a box frame with say 90x45 H3 treated pine (and say 3 small joists in between as the step is about 1m in length) that I attach to the bottom step with say Ankascrews or dynabolts, ensuring adequate air gap (with plastic packers etc).
Cover frame with joist tape
Lay decking boards from the front of the step toward the back
Attach fascia decking boards

Any further thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks again,

Michael

EricL

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/117119#Comment_117119

Hi @Michael11

My only other suggestion would be to keep your options open when choosing the timber frame for the steps. I recommend looking at 90x35 or 70x35 on the condition that these timber sizes will fit into your plans. I also propose using Consolidated Alloys 50mm x 20m Bearer Protector G-Tape to protect your frame from the rain.

Please keep us updated with your progress, we look forward to seeing your outdoor steps ready for use.

Eric

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