Three-tier deck and pergola

That design is looking great @Itai.

I like the planters as you have them now, and some decorative wall art behind them would add interest to the Colorbond fence. Is the pergola going to be covered with sheeting? If so, I would encourage you to try working in a bbq area under it. There's nothing worse than cooking a BBQ in the blistering summer heat or having a thunderstorm roll through and ruin everything.

Perhaps you might like to include some images of the space at the moment. That will give our members a better idea of what you are working with and hopefully allow them to offer some design solutions.

I look forward to following this build as it looks like it's going to be spectacular.

Mitchell

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/12463#Comment_12463

Hi @MitchellMc

Yes, I will be covering it. I'm looking at something like this to cover with: https://www.bunnings.com.au/ez-glaze-3-0-x-1-2m-x-3mm-grey-polycarbonate-roofing_p0117234 ... So the space feels nice and open!

And yes, I totally agree, I should put the bbq under the cover. But I'm not sure where is the best fit. The large window there, I am planning to put a nice piece of timber panel there to create a bit of a breakfast bar / serving window. Also, it wouldn't be a great place for a BBQ considering the smoke going into the house. I feel like the best place might be by the start of the deck, near the door, perpendicular to the planter, with some nice screening. But that means you see the side of it from inside the house. I could potentially put it against the planter boxes on the corner where the deck steps down towards the couch, but then what about the planter boxes, they'd be hard to reach, and look a bit weird behind the bbq. I thought about putting the BBQ there instead of the planters, but then you're not under cover anymore. See the conundrum!

I could make my life simple, and just get a portable BBQ on wheels ... no one says it needs to be built in 🙂

Also side note, I'm not intending to put guttering. Instead, I'm imagining the run off to go straight into the planter boxes which has no bottom and seems into the soil. Hoping this would save some watering. Thoughts?

Here's a photo of where the deck will go. (The fence has already been replaced with colourbond)

From the opposite side:

@Itai,

If that is a shed at one end of the deck, I think it would be the perfect place for the BBQ. I'd recommend screening off the edge of the deck with a few SpecRite 1800 x 902mm Merbau Slat Screen Panels as that would obscure the view of the shed and provide a backdrop for the BBQ. You could then place a bbq there, and perhaps you might like to leave off the left-hand wing of it. You could then screen off the lower section of the BBQ from view as you walk out the door. This would be a simple way to get a built-in bbq look without building a structure for it.

Let me mention @redracer01, as he might have some great suggestions.

Mitchell

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/12492#Comment_12492

Thanks @MitchellMc That's a good idea. I was planning to screen it with something like that premade screening panel, and then fit a hinge to one of the panels to create a swing gate from behind, so that it doesn't look like a gate from the front. Great idea about making a screen to cover the BBQ though, could become a bit of a feature.

I'm also thinking, behind the couch, to put the same screening there again, or to maybe just use merbau screening to build a custom one and get rid of the planters, to then widen that bit of deck around another 250mm which would be welcome space. I'm thinking top make a built in staggered water fall feature ... any ideas as to how to build one, or links to any workshop projects? Effectively I want to run the water along the length of the screening having it fall to the next level every now and again, before going off the end of the screen into a pond or feature of some sort. Not sure what to build this out of ... perhaps some would covered in plastic, or FC sheeting with waterproofing on it? This might also be too complex to create, I have no clue about pumps, etc, lol.

Thanks

Itai

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/68690#Comment_68690

I've used that screening for a similar situation @Itai. A pool fence post was used to mount the gate onto, though this is really just a temporary setup. The gate section is another panel on hinges.

You might like to provide a sketch of your waterfall feature, and then I'll be able to provide some construction options. I believe it sounds very possible, and the pump is likely the easiest part to sort out. Using FC sheeting sounds like a good option.

Mitchell

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/97293#Comment_97293

Thanks @MitchellMc That looks quite good and is exactly what I was thinking. Good idea for the pool fence post ... I don't see why it couldn't be permanent though?

What is that piece of timber screwed in doing? Is that just a stop?

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/115308#Comment_115308

It could be a permanent solution @Itai. By temporary setup, I'm referring to the fact that I live in a rental home, so I didn't want to put too many holes in the concrete. I've used the timber piece to join two panels together instead of installing a second post. I needed at least one post to hang the gate off. If it were my home, I would likely create a frame out of 90 x 45 outdoor framing timber. However, the post has held up considerably well, considering the gate panel hanging off it is reasonably heavy.

Mitchell

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/125508#Comment_125508

Understood, thanks for that advice 🙂

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/125508#Comment_125508

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/125508#Comment_125508

What timber would you use for the rafters and roof beam?

I was at Bunnings today looking at the outdoor structural framing timber, but noticed it all seems to have the grooves in them.

However, I'm hoping for something a bit more dressed as I'd like to either paint it, or maybe even stain it with a Merbau stain. I'm planning to use Merbau laminated 90x90 posts for the 3 supports (Do you reckon these are strong enough)?

Also, for attached the decking timber to the concrete, do you have any particular angle brackets you recommend? I think the timber will be around 2cm off the ground, though I obviously need to level it so it might be higher even. My only concern is the location of the bottom bolt hole on most of the brackets might not be high enough to meet the timber at least 20mm in (or at all), especially if I have to raise the timber to get it level. Or do you have any other suggestions as to how I do this? I assume I should be putting 2 x M10 bolts through each bracket.

Thanks

Itai

1 More question. How would you recommend attaching the rafters to the beams? I'm not sure what the right product is.

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/132369#Comment_132369

Hi @Itai,

The Merbau laminated posts would be perfect and provide adequate support. I believe most of our H3 outdoor timber will have those milled lines on the surface. I'll investigate what other options there might be.

How are you constructing the deck? Are you laying joists down which the brackets will attach to, and can you let me know which bracket you are referencing?

Notching the rafters so they slot over the beam and lock into place would be a suitable method. I'll include an image below to illustrate.

Mitchell

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/136540#Comment_136540

Here is the designs I'm imagining:

The top of the brick by the door is roughly 32-35cm above ground. So was thinking a 240mm bearer + a 90mm joist on top + 10mm off the ground.

I was imagining something like this bolted with 2 x M10 ever half meter or so: https://www.bunnings.com.au/carinya-heavy-duty-75-x-75-x-40-x-3-5mm-zinc-plated-angle-bracket_p0046917 or this https://www.bunnings.com.au/carinya-100-x-100-x-50-x-4-5mm-zinc-plated-angle-bracket_p0046899

(Side question, on the latter one, if I drill additional hole in the centre, would that significantly effect the structural integrity?)

My only concern with this method is levelling, I only have like 1-2cm to play with if I'm lucky with this method and my concrete slab is sloped towards the house slightly. Also, I'm unsure what the level is parallel to the house over 6m (haven't really had anything long enough to measure)

I'd be happy also with using some sort of a bearer support and a smaller bearer, but ability to adjust is key.

Further down, the deck steps down, and looks something like this:

On that pergola join, is there any bolting / nailing somewhere? I assume it's not just notched and sitting there and that's it?

Thanks

Itai

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/139424#Comment_139424

Those brackets look like they would work @Itai. You might like to switch to adjustable pedestal feet in the areas where you need further adjustment. I can't see why drilling another hole in the middle of the bracket would be an issue.

For the pergola join, you would nail diagonally through it, fixing the timber in place.

Mitchell

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/139424#Comment_139424

Hi @Itai,

One of our timber suppliers TasmanKB does Dressed All Round H3 Pine which doesn't have those micro-lines. It's available through our Special Order desk at your local store.

Please let me know if you need any assistance in ordering this product.

Mitchell

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/141358#Comment_141358

Hey all. Pergola roof structure is almost complete

I'm now looking to move onto the deck.

I'm going to be attaching the deck to the concrete, and was just seeking some advice.

I was planning on running 4 x 6m bearers to cover a deck width of 3.1m, at approx 800mm-900mm spacing between each bearer + another 700mm between the deck and the house which I will attach a 90x45 ledger to the house.

I initially calculated using bearers of 140x45 as I'll be attaching to the concrete every 1m, so they're not spanning very long. But some deck span tables show 2 laminated boards rather than a single, i.e. 2/140x45. (I'm using external framing timber MGP10)

For example:

Can I use just a single 140x45, or do I need to double them?

I'm attaching to the concrete with 130x130x5mm angle brackets with M12 bolts and M12 ankor screws, super solid!

For reference, the joists will be 70x45 as 90x45 will be too high for the deck height (140mm + 70mm works out well for me). And I will space them at 600mm (as the span will be continious span less than 1m between bearers)

Thanks

Itai

StevieB

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/142833#Comment_142833

Thanks so much for sharing an update @Itai. It's great to follow along with your project.

@MitchellMc will be happy to help when he's back on the site on Friday. Thanks for your patience in the meantime. Let me also tag @Adam_W to see if he has any thoughts to share.

Stevie

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/143852#Comment_143852

I've decided to stick to the 45mm and not laminate the two together. My neighbour is a builder and said with my installation technique, it's actually all over engineered and I won't have any issues. Especially with supports every meter on the bearer and a Floor Load Width of 800-1000 max because I have so many bearers. I do believe in over-strengthening rather than under!

However, my work came to a halt for the weekend. I was installing the ledger which was going to be used as my reference point for all the other bearers. I was using some 250mm landscaping screws to attach the ledger directly to the bearers under the house (brick veneers house on stumps) and somehow I managed to find the exact centre of a copper water pipe which I screwed straight through! (Those are some tough screws!)

I ended up having to remove some bricks and clamp the hole shut with this product: https://www.bunnings.com.au/plumbing-clamps-scl_p4920569 ... it worked a treat and I was able to continue using my water until the plumber came out today. This $25 saved me the additional call out fee for an emergency plumber on the weekend!

Plumbers repair

Bricks all patched up again

Will have to change my approach with the ledger now though. I'll still put a few landscaping screws, just will be cautious about where I drill. And the rest I will do with 12mm Ankor bolts into the mortar joins cutting into the brick. The advantage is this doesn't have to be the strongest hold, because I've got another bearer at 450mm away which will be dealing with the brunt of the load, and none of the load from the main deck area will hit the ledger. It's really only there to stop flex when you step onto and off the deck.

These are the screws I used which drilled straight through the copper (The screw itself is what drilled through using a driver)... I'm super impressed! https://www.bunnings.com.au/buildex-18-7-x-250mm-landscaping-construction-screw_p2410358

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/144634#Comment_144634

Hi @Itai,

I apologise, as I must have missed your question. You don't need to laminate two boards together. You just need to make sure the supports for the single length match the span table requirements.

I'm sorry to hear of your mishap. It looks like you are still making great progress, though! As you've mentioned, I'd recommend putting in a few more Dynabolts of Ankascrews into the brickwork to compensate.

I look forward to your next update instalment. Please let us know if you need any assistance.

Mitchell

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/145211#Comment_145211

Thanks for the response. Haven't done anything since with the crazy Melbourne weather!

Just a few questions (and I read some stuff you wrote on a low level deck thread). Should I be putting protectadeck between the brick and the timber for the ledger I'm attaching? It's 140mm timber, which would need two rows of protectadeck. Or should I use another type of flashing, or it's just not needed for the ledger because brick "breaths"?

I'm attaching the bearers to the concrete slab, and am running joists over the top of the bearers. I was planning on using these brackets to attach:
https://www.bunnings.com.au/dunnings-130-x-130-x-65-x-5mm-m12-galvanised-angle-bracket_p1070080 (Where the bearer runs within 20mm of the ground)

https://www.bunnings.com.au/dunnings-150-x-150-x-75-x-6mm-m12-galvanised-angle-bracket_p1070081 (Where the bearer has to run higher off the ground to maintain the deck height along a slight slope, say 30-50mm).

My question is, would I encounter any issues if I drilled a 3rd hole in the centre of the brackets as sometimes the bottom hole is too close to the edge of the wood (sometimes not even contacting the wood). From what I've been told, with this type of steel, and the force being down, I shouldn't see any issues.

Would a spacing of approx 1m be ok with these brackets (they are holding up the bearers, not just the joists). My guess is with the strength of these things, 1m spacing would be ok. My minimum bearer is 140mm so I'm not worried about span lengths. This is along a 6m bearer (so 7 brackets each, alternating sides).

I did have my neighbour take a look, who is an old school retired builder, and he seemed to think I've gone and overengineered so should be ok. But wanted to get your opinion.

Thanks

Itai

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/145669#Comment_145669

Hi @Itai,

You could either use Protectadeck, flashing, or isolate the timber from the brick. You'd isolate the timber by placing a few washers on the Dynabolts or screws before inserting them into the brick. Spacing the timber away from the bricks stops moisture from being trapped and encouraging rot.

I can't foresee an issue with drilling an extra hole in those brackets. Once again, you can use washers to raise the brackets if that allows you to use the original holes. A spacing of one meter between brackets on a 140mm bearer sounds about right.

With low-level decks, people are often trying to use the smallest timber possible with the least amount of mounting points. In your case, it sounds like you are well within span lengths, and it should be a substantial deck.

Please let me know if you have any questions.

Mitchell

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/146016#Comment_146016

Great idea with the washers under the brackets! Thanks.

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/146016#Comment_146016

Here's a bit of a progress update.

Have got the bearers in, and attached to the ground as well as the ledger attached to the brick, and spaced away from the brick with 2 x 3mm M12 flat square washers per anchor. Almost cooked my Bosch Professional Driver by putting the Anchor screws into the ground concrete, and I only did 1 beam at a time. There is definitely some crazy force required. The Bosch was spitting out oil towards the end of the 3rd bearer, so for the 4th bearer I opted to use a good old Craftright Ratchet set ... that was some really hard yakka with the short arm for leverage ... but it got it mostly done. And the bits I just couldn't do ... the driver sorted out!

I will be borrowing my neighbours Impact Wrench for the second bit of deck when I put the in, as I'm attaching the joists straight to the ground.

Measured out my square with reference to the door. I didn't get the level absolutely perfect as there is a slight drop on the ledger of about 3 or 4mm over a 6m span, so I was happy with that level of precision. I've measured the exact same slope on the suspended bearer, so at least they are equal.

You can see my patched brickwork on the bottom left where I hit the pipe!

Mounted the first set of angle brackets

And all attached. I used stringlines at 5 points (1 at each end, 1 in the middle, and 1 at the 25% and 75% points) to level it all out and remove any bowing from the wood. The beauty of running a bracket at every 1m rather than wide 2-3m spans is that you can bend the wood to remove the bowing rather than needing to plane it.

I haven't yet put the 2nd bolt into most the brackets, as I needed to drill the second hole anyway, because even if I had used washers to raise the brackets, there is approx 2cm of bolt head the wood is sitting over, meaning it wasn't low enough to get a good hold. But my cordless power drills (Bosch Professional) just don't have the oomph to quicklly drill through the 5mm galvanized steel. So went and bought a SDS chuck attachment for my Ozito SDS drill, and hopefully that will have the oomph with the carbon steel drill bit. Even if it isn't faster, at least I won't need to charge the battery every 3 holes!

Have also put down ome weed matting over the sand area along the house, don't want any weeds growing up through the deck. Will be putting down some drainage gravel over it to hold it in place with the pins. On the other side I'll be building a raised garden bed, so no need for weed matt there just yet.

StevieB

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/146304#Comment_146304

Thanks for sharing your progress @Itai. Sounds like it's been quite a build with plenty of lessons learned along the way.

Look forward to following along with the rest of your project.

Stevie

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/146016#Comment_146016

Are you able to check why the 140x19mm 5.7m Merbau isn't available anymore: https://www.bunnings.com.au/140-x-19mm-5-7m-merbau-pre-oiled-select-grade-fj-decking_p0177414

Is it a stock shortage, or is there another reason?

The deck I'm building is 6m long, and I was hoping to make the entire length with a single run of Merbau + perpendicular piece at either end to give me a total length of 5980.

Alternatively, I could potentially use this: https://www.bunnings.com.au/specrite-140-x-21mm-5-7m-pre-oiled-concealed-fix-decking_p0064519 but it's 2mm taller then the edge pieces would be, not sure if that would be noticeable. Can I still use these with normal screws, or would I have some setbacks or notice anything visually? If I were to use it concealed fixings, how do you do the end boards, because I can't seam to find boards that only have the groove on one side?

Edit: I've been reading the Ekodeck fastening guide here which seems to give me the answers I need to most of my questions about concealed fixings: https://www.ekodeck.com.au/media/1499/qf-6mm-timber-2020-web.pdf

If I were to rip the edge of the the concealed fix decking to make an edge, would I need to oil it again? And can you recommend a right size router bit to round the ripped edge so that it would be the same as if it were not ripped.

Also, can the concealed clips be used on top of Protectadeck flashing?

Thanks

Itai

chuckyjr

i got a pergola a while ago and its perfect it is waterproof

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/146305#Comment_146305

Hi @Itai,

I'll reach out via PM to get your location details. I'd like to call the store to verify whether this product is no longer stocked there.

I don't believe the 2mm will be particularly noticeable, but to the discerning eye, it could be seen. Obviously, since you know about it, it'll stick out to you and might become a bugbear.

Mitchell

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/146544#Comment_146544

Thanks Mitch. All good, I've decided I want to go with the concealed decking system anyway, so I'll go for the concealed groove boards.

But will the concealed system work with the protectadeck? I assume it should?

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/13872#Comment_13872

@chuckyjr That's great to hear. They are very useful aren't they! I'm looking forward to getting the roof on mine up.