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How to make sturdy wooden edging?

I am in the process of redesigning my back yard. My goal is to make really strong and sturdy wooden edging which won't warp. I had some edging in this home when I moved in and if the timber was 2cm thick that's probably being too kind and the stakes were short, small and pretty pathetic. It warped and completely dislodged within 12 months.

I have now manually edged my lawn to the shape I want it(see attached pictures) and my plan is to use 50mm thick treated pine sleepers for the edging and possibly some timber posts cut to 500mm in length for the stakes to solidly hold the sleepers upright in the ground and for a long time.

I will need to join sleepers together at 90 degree angles as i turn corners and also join sleepers in straight lines as some of my lengths are over 4M long.

Could I ask for some advice on:

1) the best material to use when joining 2 sleepers together in a straight line and at 90 degree angles(I was thinking a timber post could be used but there may be something better to achieve this?)

2) which timber screws would you recommend for this project?

3) any other advice you have for me would be most welcome as I am handy but have never done this before.

Thank you.

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Comments

Welcome to the Bunnings Workshop community @Ifckop5. It's sensational to have you join us, and many thanks for your question about installing sleepers.

As you mentioned, the sleepers themselves can be used as the posts, or if you wanted a particularly strong board, you could use Ridgi 50 x 50 x 3mm 0.65m Galvanised Steel H Joiner Post and Ridgi 50 x 50 x 3mm 0.65m Galvanised Steel Corner Post. They would be overkill for a single sleeper high wall but are convenient to use as the sleeper just slots in.

It's advisable to break up your spans to avoid distortion of the sleepers. Sleepers will come in 1800, 2400, and 3000mm lengths, and if you are not retaining any soil, you could lay them in those lengths. However, to avoid warping, it's best to have an upright post at least every 2400mm.

If you decide to use all timber, then these landscape screws would be the best choice for your project.

Check out these helpful step-by-step guides: How to build a retaining wall and How to build a simple raised garden bed.

Please let me know if you have any questions.

Mitchell

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/22977#Comment_22977

Thanks for the reply and advice @MitchellMc . Really appreciate the info and advice given.

It sounds like I am on the right track and will most likely be using some timber posts which I shall get the good folk at the trade desk to cut into minimum 500mm lengths.

I shall certainly have posts less than 2400mm apart to avoid warping. I might even paint the sleepers with some monument exterior paint to match my timber fence. That should help with some uv resistance.

For the corners where I need to make 90 degree joins, will the timber posts be ok to use as the central piece to join for this application.

As i have kikuyu grass with its invasive runners and all, I plan on having half of the sleeper(100mm) below grass level and the other half will be at/above grass level. Any issues you see with me proceeding as I intend to knowing this?

Thanks again for all the help.

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/74171#Comment_74171

@MitchellMc one more question. Do you think I need to use quick set concrete/cement to secure the posts for this project. I imagined the soil would suffice as a support but after watching the tutorial videos you sent me I'm not so sure?

Thanks.

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/74171#Comment_74171

Timber posts will be OK to use in the corners and for the central piece of the join, @Ifckop5.

Half-burying the sleepers shouldn't throw any spanners in the works.

Mitchell

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/100615#Comment_100615

"My goal is to make really strong and sturdy wooden edging which won't warp."

I found the warping ability of wet sleepers simply amazing. To 'tame' them I went with welded steel brackets set in concrete where the 'arms' could be bent to any angle that the bordering required and adhered with M10 bolts. In this example - scrap gal pipe for the post, which I filled later with spare concrete mix.

I would very much like to see your finished bordering. 👍

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/100615#Comment_100615

@MitchellMc many thanks. I can't wait to get going. I'll post pictures once complete.

Do you recommend concreting the posts into the ground or is that overkill to support 1 level of sleeper?

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/117182#Comment_117182

@Noyade thank you for the advice which I appreciate. I shall consider this too and will definitely be posting pictures of the finished product.

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/117182#Comment_117182

Sorry @Ifckop5, I missed your additional question. The soil will most likely work if you're not building up the garden bed behind the sleepers. However, given your requirement for a sturdy wooden edging, I'd recommend using concrete. It doesn't need to be a huge footer, perhaps 250 x 250mm.

Mitchell

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/126742#Comment_126742

Many thanks @MitchellMc

Really appreciate the advice. Leave me to it and I shall post pictures once done. I'm planning on completing it all before the end of October due to work commitments.

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/126742#Comment_126742

@MitchellMc do I get the posts in the ground and into position and concrete before securing the sleepers to them or get the posts into the ground in position, secure the sleepers to the posts and then concrete? Thanks.

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/133113#Comment_133113

Posts are first set in concrete, and then the sleepers are attached to them, @Ifckop5

Have a look through this guide: How to build a retaining wall. I'm sure you'll find it helpful.

Mitchell

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/137042#Comment_137042

@MitchellMc thank you. I watched that video yesterday and then again now and it did help.

What I might do is get the posts all in the ground first so I can see exactly the length of sleeper needed between them, and then ill get the sleepers cut to size. Sound good?

I guess that was my biggest concern with concreting before securing the sleepers.

Really appreciate your help again.

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/139755#Comment_139755

That sounds like a plan, @lfckop5! 😀

Mitchell

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/141613#Comment_141613

Brilliant. Thank you Mitchell. Pictures to be sent in due course.

I shall now leave you in peace and once again express my gratitude for all the advice.

Thanks for all the help.

Elton

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/143012#Comment_143012

No worries at all, Elton (@lfckop5)! We're here to assist!

I look forward to seeing your results.

Mitchell

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/143986#Comment_143986

Hi Mitchell @MitchellMc

Do you think the H3 treated pine 150x25mm cut to 500mm lengths would be suitable as posts to support the 200x50mm sleepers? The plan is to have them cemented every +-1.5m . Please see below images.

Thanks. Elton

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/144743#Comment_144743

H3 treatment is only suitable for above-ground use and will rot in-ground, Elton (@lfckop5). You need to use sleepers or H4-treated posts for anything under or on the soil.

Mitchell

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/145296#Comment_145296

Ah thanks Mitchell. All good. Will definitely use H4 timber. Thanks again @MitchellMc .

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/145730#Comment_145730

@MitchellMc i landed up getting these screws as the ones you recommended only came in lengths too long for the 100mm total thickness of panels I'll need to get them into

I am using the sleepers for posts too so total thickness will be 100mm. 75mm screws will be good to join the posts to the edging right? I didn't want to go 100mm screws as those may go through the entire thickness.

@MitchellMc Could I also ask if painting the posts and edging will assist in preventing warping? I plan to paint with a good exterior paint in monument colour

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/146065#Comment_146065

"Could I also ask if painting the posts and edging will assist in preventing warping?"

Personally I would think not. They're evil and will warp as they dry out with tremendous strength unless 'tamed' with strong anchoring. Sounds like horse breaking. Yeee Haaa. 😁

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/146348#Comment_146348

I foolishly made an outside workbench by lashing five 2.4m wet sleepers together many years ago and attaching two welded leg frames at the end.

As they dried with each successive hot Aussie summer - the whole thing warped to the point the bench rocked on two diagonal legs. Eventually it took around 50mm of packing under one leg to keep it from rocking.

Disgusted, to tame this I welded threaded rod onto two large concrete bolts and with a piece of steel plate slowly turned the nuts such that the leg "returned to earth." A lotta creaking from the sleepers resisting the counter-force, but in the end I won. 😁

The Sleeper Whisperer.

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/146575#Comment_146575

Hi @Noyade . That's crazy. It's a full on operation to stop the warping. I have a 3m long and 250mm thick piece of treated pine which has been half submerged in the ground for 4 years and it hasn't moved. Maybe the moisture from the ground helps with the warping.

Thanks for the advice.

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/146772#Comment_146772

I wouldn't recommend painting the sleepers as the chemical treatment on them will slowly come out and push the paint right off. Since timber is a natural product the warping comes from the fibres inside the timber when they dry off they shrink and pull the other fibres with them causing them to warp.

If your timber piece happens to be close to a heavy moisture area it would naturally hold back the warping as the water keeps the fibres from drying out. I suggest measuring the depth of the timber pieces you'll be screwing together, just keep in mind that the Zenith Treated Pine Screws do come in shorter lengths.

If you need further assistance, please let us know.

Eric

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/146924#Comment_146924

Hi @EricL . Thank you for the information. All my pieces will be partially submerged in the ground so definitely near a moist source. This explains why the 250mm × 3m long piece I have has not warped at all (and It faces north west too which means extreme sun) over 4 years.

My total thickness when joining the edging sleeper and post sleeper as mentioned will be 100mm. So that's why I bought 75mm treated pine screws which should join them well. The next size up is a 100mm screw which may ever so slightly pierce the edging sleeper hence why I went with the 75mm screw.

Thanks.

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/147056#Comment_147056

@EricL @MitchellMc well the Melbourne weather sure has thrown a spanner in the works as far as this project is concerned. It will however get better on Friday and I plan to cement the posts(I am using 50mm thick sleepers cut to 500mm lengths for the posts/support/anchor for this edging).

One thing I am a little worried about is the cementing itself. I have bought Bastian quick set cement(red and white bag) so will look to pour this around the posts/support sleepers before adding water. Do you have any advice how to secure the 500mm long supports/anchors in the ground so they remain exactly in place while I pour the cement and water around them and allow it the time it needs to set without moving? Of course I want to get this right and it seems to me that it is the trickiest part of making this edging as they need to be in the right area and aligned with the others in the row before I can cement them. Once the posts are cemented in the right place the sleeper lengths will be easy to install.

Thanks for any advice you can provide.

Regards

Elton

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/147162#Comment_147162

My recommendation is to use a builders line to make sure your posts are all lined up. To keep the posts in position, I suggest nailing in some timber offcuts to brace them into position. Just make sure that the timber braces are firm enough to keep them in place but easy enough for you to hammer off. Please remember that you will have time to adjust and line up the posts as the cement settles in.

If you need further assistance, please let us know.

Eric

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/147257#Comment_147257

@EricL many thanks. I shall certainly use the builders line and offcuts as suggested. This weekend is the big weekend where it's all happening so I shall be in touch with some photo's once all is complete.

TheHandySqirrel

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/147257#Comment_147257

Another technique I've seen is to attach a piece of timber horizontally to the post. The advantage of this is that you can have the post hover above the bottom of the hole, thus ensuring concrete wraps all the way around it and prevents rot from the bottom. Just ensure the edges of your hole are high enough so the top of your post lines up with the string line.

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/147344#Comment_147344

Hi @TheHandySqirrel

That is another excellent method to hold the posts in place. Let me tag @lfckop5 to make them aware of your suggestion. Having the post floating in the middle of the cement foot will definitely make the post last longer.

Thank you for sharing such a great suggestion.

Eric

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/147427#Comment_147427

@TheHandySqirrel @EricL thank you so much. This sounds great however i not 100% can picture how it would be done. Remember i am not using the normal post but rather have cut 50mm thick x 200mm wide H4 sleepers to 500mm lengths and plan to use those as posts.

If what i am thinking is correct , if i attach a piece of wood horizontally to my post it would need to be at least twice as wide as the post to keep it suspended in place above the hole and in the cement mix. But because i want my post 100mm out of the ground to attach my sleepers to, I would need to attach the horizontal piece of wood so all of the post is in the ground with the exception of the last 100mm. Is this right? If you had a picture or video you could share it would be really appreciated(I am a visual person).

Thanks,again.

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