How to fix anchors too loose in brick wall?

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/35746#Comment_35746

Welcome to the Bunnings Workshop community @CassM. It's terrific to have you join us, and many thanks for your question about installing a clothesline.

Are you able to remove the bracket and pull out the offending Dynabolt? If so, I'd recommend you then fill the hole to the brim with Ramset 300ml Chemset UltraFix Plus and re-insert the Dynabolt. Pop the bracket back on, but only finger-tighten the nut. Wait 45 minutes and then tighten a couple of revolutions of the nut, but do not tighten it fully. Wait another couple of hours and tighten the nut further. This allows the glue time to set whilst expanding the Dynabolt inside the wall. You'll effectively glue it into position. This is super-strong glue designed for this purpose.

This issue you are experiencing is due to these being hollow bricks. When the Dynabolt expands inside the wall, there is nothing to hold it in place. Typically, you might get lucky and hit solid material, but most of the time, at least one will fail as it expands into a void. This glueing method is likely the best option to try at the moment. If that doesn't work, let us know, and we'll move on to the next option, which will likely be moving the holes and using the Ankabolts in fresh material.

Please let me know if you have any questions.

Mitchell

CassM

Hi, sorry it took me so long to reply. It took me a while to find the time to get the products and then to attempt the fix. I managed to remove the bottom two Dynabolts ok but the top two of each bracket are stuck. What should I do if I cannot find a way to remove them?

Thanks for your help

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/81206#Comment_81206

Hi @CassM,

While holding the outer sleeve with pliers, tap the bolt section into the wall. This pushes the bolt section further in and disengages the locking mechanism. If you are able to tap the bolt further in while holding the sleeve in position, that should allow you to remove the outer sleeve and bolt. Alternatively, you might have to look at cutting the bolts off and moving positions.

Mitchell

CassM

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/105295#Comment_105295

Hammer and pliers did the job! Thanks

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/119780#Comment_119780

Nice work, @CassM!

Mitchell

MrCannotWeld

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/35746#Comment_35746

Thanks - I had the same problem and this worked perfectly. Great outcome.

JacobZ

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/84468#Comment_84468

Hi @MrCannotWeld,

A warm welcome to the Bunnings Workshop community, it is fantastic to have you with us.

There's a wealth of information in our wonderful community so it's always brilliant to hear when our previous discussions can help others.

Thank you for sharing.

Jacob

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/128578#Comment_128578

Hi there Bunnings knowledgeable folk,

I have a related issue.

again it’s a wall mounted hose reel. Holmanns brand from Bunnings. The wall is Hebel. The reel is mounted by large screws and wall plugs. They’ve pulled out twice. I’m thinking my best bet is this Chemset stuff. But can I use it with the large screws that come with the hose reel, or do I need to swap these out for something different? How do I screw the screws in so they are tight if I’m screwing in to a hardening gel?

thanks,

Andrew

Dave-1

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/135811#Comment_135811

Good Morning @ajperry

Any chance of a couple of photos of the hose are thats being fixed?

I was about to offer some advice and thought to have a quick squiz about the make up of a hebel wall. It makes me hesitate about offering advice on something I am unfamilure with.

So as a different option to hang the holmanns hose off the hebel wall. (will let @JacobZ or @EricL answer that one) The option I am thinking is to install a 1.8m post at least 600mm into the ground (with concrete) and bolt the holmanns hose to it. This way there is no strain on the wall, tho it wont look as streamlined. You will need to dig around 300mm off the wall as if you dig closer you will potentially hit the foundations of the house.

Dave

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/138914#Comment_138914

Here are the photos you requested. Not really able to put post in ground, etc. It’s either the concrete path, or the garden. Im not going to do that. It’s really the wall that is the only option. There must be a way to fix it there.
Thanks for any help you can offer.

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/141002#Comment_141002

Hi @ajperry

Have you seen this guide....

https://hebel.com.au/wp-content/uploads/downloads/Fixing-to-Hebel-Guide_HELIT225.pdf

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/142548#Comment_142548

@ajperry

The chemset anchors work the opposite way round. You set a threaded rod type fixing into the wall with the chemset let them dry then put the Hosereel on those and tighten it with nuts. You can then cut off any excess thread with an angle grinder.

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/142548#Comment_142548

Thanks,

Yes, I didn’t that. I have used Ramsey plugs and the screws that came with the hose reel. They pulled out. Now the holes are a bit larger than they should ideally be. I don’t think I can find plugs large enough. Hence my thoughts about the chemset option. I get that I may have to work a bit backwards though…essentially set the fixture into the wall and then screw in to that and then cut off any excess.

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/143652#Comment_143652

Thanks. I think this is the best option.

if this doesn’t work, then I may have to fix a larger plate/wood piece to the wall and then screws go in to that.

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/144485#Comment_144485

@ajperry

Depending on your DIY confidence and the roof cover, there is a way to be sure this doesn't move for decades but it takes a lot of messing about. It requires two pieces of timber that you pre treat or buy pre preserved. What you do is cut the timber into lengths (you will need at least two) that reach from the top of the wall down to below where the reel will sit and remove tles from the roof above the cavity. Drop the timber down into the wall so it lines up with where you want the reel to be and (having pre drilled through the outer wall) screw with long enough screws through the wall into the timber. That way the weight is spread over the whole wall and it can't come loose.

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/145098#Comment_145098

Thanks, but I don’t have those skills. The roof is colourbond. You’re assuming that there is a cavity behind the hebel in that area…but I’m guessing there is a frame, so there would be a horizontal length of wood/metal. I can’t be sure of course, I’m not a framer.

You’d think with all the hebel houses going up, someone would’ve come up with an ingenious fixing method that didn’t require a trade qualification. Perhaps I should’ve just invested in a hose reel that sat on the ground. 😞

JacobZ

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/141002#Comment_141002

Hi @ajperry,

Welcome to the Bunnings Workshop community, it is fantastic to have you with us.

It's great to see @Dave-1 and @R4addZ have already jumped in to assist.

If you aren't able to install a post, then the only real option is to attach the hose reel to the wall. The only options I can really provide are those that are in the Fixing to Hebel Guide that R4addz mentioned above.

I'd be looking to use the method shown in the Fixing to Hebel guide above. You'll note that these methods mention specific hose reels', maximum weights and length of extension from the wall. If your hose reel is not one of these reels that are mentioned, or it weighs too much, or extends too far from the wall, then you may have to look at a different hose reel.

Are you aware of what type of Hebel panels were used on your house?

Assuming your hose reel fits within these requirements, if, for example, you have Hebel PowerPanel XL, which is 75mm thick, you would use these Ramset 8 x 80mm Long Anchor RamPlugs with 90mm 14G Hex Head Screws. If you have Hebel PowerPanel 50, then you would use Ramset 7 x 50mm Green Wall Plugs with 65mm 14G Hex Head Screws.

Unfortunately, if the existing holes have blown out and they are too big for these fittings, then you'd have to move the hose reel slightly, fill the existing holes with a filler such as this Polyfilla Exterior Brick and Render Masonry, then paint the patches to match the wall.

Let me know if you have any further questions.

Jacob

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/142549#Comment_142549

Thanks to everyone for their advice.

I’ve followed the Hebel guide and we will see if that is the best option.

Some photos of what I’ve got to.

thanks!!

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/143657#Comment_143657

Hi there,

Three weeks later the plugs have pulled out again…see photos.

These were fitted using the Hebel Guide previously provided in this thread.

I'm not convinced doing this a third time is going to yield a different solution.

Any ideas?

JacobZ

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/144503#Comment_144503

Hi @ajperry,

I'm sorry to hear that you've had the same issue. Unfortunately, without knowing the specific type of hebel that was used, it is difficult to know whether the method would work or not.

At this point, I think it is likely best to look at installing the hose reel in an alternative location or installing a freestanding post to mount the hose reel to.

Is there anything close to this location that is not hebel that you might be able to use? Keep in mind you can run a hose between the tap and the hose reel, so anything within about 5 or so metres would be reasonable.

Jacob

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/145117#Comment_145117

Hi Jacob,

The house is a brand new two story home in Adelaide’s west built from 75mm Hebel.

Around the house is a pebblecrete (concrete) path. Between the path and the colourbond fence is a thin garden bed.

The reality is there really isn’t anywhere to put the wall mounted reel that isn’t Hebel. I could try to find the vertical pieces of wood that the Hebel must be mounted to, but I’d be lucky to find those.

I’m not removing colourbond roof panels to then drop a a piece(s) or wood to bolt in to. Too hard.

I may have to revert to a ground based reel or maybe try chemically gluing bolts into the Hebel and then screw the hose reel into those bolts.

I’ve said it before, but Hebel is pretty popular, I’m surprised we haven’t invented a solution that 100% works. New house are using Hebel a lot.

Thanks for your help.

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/145591#Comment_145591

Hi @CassM

The issue may not be fixable with chemical anchors as I suspect it is the hebel it's self which is failing and not the fixings. You could end up just pulling larger sections out. My final attempt would be a bit left field, I would try treating the job the same way I would fix something to plasterboardand use a toggle fixing like these.

https://www.bunnings.com.au/ramset-3-16-x-100mm-round-head-spring-toggle-2-pack_p2260428

You would have to buy new bolts to go into them that are long enough to get the spring toggle through the wall with enough length to also let it spring open and also some washers on the outside so it doesn't pull through the hose reel holes. It may also be possible to sleeve the screw in the hole to reduce possible future movement. The advantage of this is that you are pulling against the whole brick with a good area of fixing.

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/145960#Comment_145960

Thanks @R4addZ

I’ll see if I can find the right length screw/bolt to go with the “toggle” fixtures you suggested. I had wondered if that might be an option.

The only issue I can think of is there may not be room between the hebel and the inside wall.

What do you mean by sleeve the screw in the hole? Is there an obvious solution I can purchase for this, or is it something I would need to make with another product?

thanks,

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/146255#Comment_146255

Hi @ajperry,

How are you drilling the holes, and are the plugs snug/tight when you tap them in? I note in the Hebel guide that holes are to be drilled using a standard high-speed steel drill bit and a non-hammer-function drill. If you've been using a masonry bit and a hammer-function drill, you could be wallowing out the holes and over-sizing them.

That's why I ask about how tight the plugs are when you're slipping them in. There should be resistance when inserting them, and you might need to tap them lightly into the hole with a hammer. If they are sliding in without any resistance or if they are slightly loose in the hole, then it indicates the hole is oversized.

Please let me know if you have any questions.

Mitchell

Noyade

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/146505#Comment_146505

Hi @ajperry

"Im not going to do that. It’s really the wall that is the only option"

My thought is 5mm steel plate. Mark, drill and tap threads for the hose-holder bracket.

Fit the steel plate to the wall. Forces won't bend the plate and the 'moment arm' is now longer as the anchorage is above the bracket.

But still, you need at least two good anchors at the top. I've never worked with Hebel. If I'm angry and punch it - would I leave a mark?

🤔

Just a thought.

Cheers.

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/146505#Comment_146505

Thanks.

I followed the guide very closely. Used the recommended bit, as you noted, and the recommend drill, as you also noted.

The plugs did need to be lightly taped in, the fit was snug. I also didn’t over tighten the bolts, another recommendation.

It just seems like the constant hose movement, winding and return, is enough movement to have those plugs come loose.

I think my best bet are the toggle bolt/screws with washers. Something that hold the hose unit onto the wall from behind. This assumes I can ge them long enough and there is enough room behind the Hebel for the toggle to open and grip.

Thanks

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/146711#Comment_146711

Thanks,

I might try the toggle bolts first. Steel, or wooden “plate” is a bit of engineering I may not be capable of.

It is definitely an option though.

Thanks

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/146876#Comment_146876

You're right on the max limit at 10kg for a hose reel @ajperry, according to the Hebel guide, and you're likely correct that the forces applied to the hose reel are why it's coming loose. I've had to reinstall quite a few hose reels that were fixed to a concrete wall, as even Dynabolts in solid concrete can work themselves loose when used to fix a hose reel in place.

Do you have any idea how thick the Hebel panel is? If so, we might be able to point you towards expanding fixings, but they are typically designed for 10mm plasterboard.

Mitchell

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/147015#Comment_147015

The Hebel is 75mm I’ve been advised.