Child Item

How to remove outdoor wooden steps?

Kvic

I have a staircase in the backyard garden and I want to remove it to clean and add drainage under the steps.

Messy Messy

I do not see a easy way of removing these steps.

IMG20230501093049 - Copy.jpg

Can not see anyway of removing the step on surface.

I don't want to destroy the steps but I see no other choice unless some one a better solution?

Find more posts tagged with

Tools and Materials

Building and Construction

Comments

MitchellMc

HI @Kvic,

The stairs would have been assembled as one unit, placed in position and then Dynabolted into the concrete blocks. You won't be able to remove the stair treads as the side stringers will be screwed into them. The only real option would be to remove the whole staircase in one piece and this in itself could be a reasonably difficult task. You'll need to locate the bolts that go through the stringers into the blocks to remove the staircase. You have a couple of them in your pictures. Undo the nut and try to pull out the Dynabolt. I imagine you'll have great difficulty removing the bolt as, once installed, they can be near impossible to remove due to their expanding nature.

Can you tell whether the stairs treads are rebated into the side stringers? Typically slots are cut in the stringer, and the stair treads slide into those. If the stair treads are not rebated into the stringer, then you could possibly cut them out with a reciprocating saw and long blade.

Remember your PPE, including gloves and safety glasses.

Please let me know if you have any questions.

Mitchell

Kvic

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/27055#Comment_27055

Hey Mitchell

Thank for the response.

I think the treads are pressed into the stringer.

There are no cut-outs in the stringer to slide the treads out.

Will have a think about this one

Dave-1

@Kvic

Man, looks painful whichever way you go.

I have removed dynabolts before by tapping the shaft of the bolt once the head is removed down into the hole that was originally drilled. You may be lucky and have it fall straight into an empty cavity of the bessa block? For the round headed bolts, ummmm maybe grind the head off and tap the bolt through the same way (hopping the bessa blacks arnt filled with concrete)

Second option tho painful. A hacksaw blade if it can be slid between the steps and the bessa blocks could be used to saw through the bolt shaft. Would be very time consuming and prob a little too dificult.

Would love to see what you do.

Best of luck.

Dave

Kvic

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/27063#Comment_27063

Hi Dave

Thanks for the response.

Hacksaw will not fit between the wall and stringer and the Besser has been filled.

The simplest way is to cut treads in half and hole saw around the bolts in the stringer then it should fall apart.

Grind off the bolts and fit new steps.

Will sleep on it.

Dave-1

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/76188#Comment_76188

@Kvic

Ugh... I feel your pain. When you replace the steps any ideas so the nbext time around you will be able to remove them?

Dave

Kvic

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/101971#Comment_101971

Galvanised Steel Stair Stringers where the treads are bolted on from the top and easily removed.

https://www.advansa.com.au/STGBOC_dash_2S/STAIR-STRINGER-BOLT_dash_ON_dash_CONCRETE-_dash_-2-STEP/pd.php

I have to cut the concrete to fit a drainage which I would like it to be under the bottom step to collect the rain water with was very muddy from the upper backyard. Since running a 18mtr drain pipe system across the upper backyard a small amount of clean water still comes from under the steps.

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/t5/Outdoor/How-to-improve-drainage/td-p/142122

Dave-1

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/117971#Comment_117971

@Kvic

I like the solution, and best bit the steps can be pulled out if needed! 🙂

And yeah was following the convo and that is a LOT of water to deal with.

Dave

Kvic

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/127321#Comment_127321

I have started cleaning this morning

I found woodSpray with mould cleanerI found the concrete floor is painted

I am wondering if I need to paint the stairs and besser with something after the clean?

MitchellMc

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/127321#Comment_127321

Hi @Kvic,

To protect the timber, you can coat it with an exterior timber oil. There's no requirement to paint the Besser blocks, and given the issues you're experiencing with drainage, I wouldn't advise that, as the paint with be quickly blown off the wall from the captured water behind it. A yearly clean with your pressure washer should keep them in reasonable shape.

Please let me know if you have any questions.

Mitchell

Kvic

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/133472#Comment_133472

Yes it seems I like the steps since cleaning and may keep it while finding a new solution for the drainage problem.

I have also started cleaning the wall of the house as it has mould as well but have found many cracks in the mortar that I had not noticed before. I have the paint to cover the wall when it is all clean but do I need to worry about these minor hairline cracks and what should I do with the larger one's?

Mouldy WallWhite marks are hairline cracksLarger CrackesThe wall dried and turned white around cracks

I assume the area around the cracks that dried first indicates high post or lifting around these cracks?

Dave-1

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/137267#Comment_137267

@Kvic

I actually have a worse instance (the render has been cracked and fallen off sections of my retaining wall. Thats going to be a project all by itself!) You cracks are fine but def would hit up the paint people as there may be particular paint to take care of the cracks and also the leeching that is happening. For the larger cracks at the base I really dont know other then removing the cracked pieces and then re rendering the area. I only say that becaus ethere is water at the same level as the cracks. If you arnt worried about that then possibly leave it and keep an eye on it?

Dave

Kvic

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/139888#Comment_139888

Thanks Dave, I will paint the wall and render the wall.

EricL

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/141702#Comment_141702

Hello @Kvic

Your idea of cutting the steps is actually quite sound. But instead of cutting it in the middle, I suggest cutting it at the ends with a reciprocating saw and a Diablo 9" Steel Demon Reciprocating Saw Blade For Thick Metal. This blade will cut right through the nails or screws that are holding the steps to the timber stringers. If done properly only a small amount of the timber steps will be cut off.

You can then proceed to the next step and use a hole saw on the Dynabolts. This will allow you to pull the stringers off the wall with a small amount of damage. The hole saw must not be very big so that it does not compromise the strength of the stringer.

On the condition that the cuts made to the steps and stringers are minimal, it might be possible to re-assemble the steps. However, it will be smaller than its original size as some trimming will be necessary to the steps.

Eric

Kvic

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/143081#Comment_143081

The outcome from the steps.

Finish Job

The painting of of the stairs with wood stain has the stairs looking good enough to keep. I had to paint the stairs a few times as they were very thirsty but now the concrete around the entertainment area is showing up a need to be repainted.

So here we go again, I need information about prep and painting of this concrete surface.

The water problems pointed out at the beginning of this story has improved were I see only limited clear water but before painting I feel I can further improve the water problem by cutting the concrete in front of the bottom step with a catchment and then cutting a drain line away to the stormwater pipe.

Drainage Design Area

So how can I go about cutting this concrete which is 100mm thick, fit a slim line drain with black cover that sits even with the surface.

Then I feel I could then paint this concrete surface but then I feel the Besser block with look under stated. I have pressure clean these blocks and I think over time and dryer weather they could improve unless there is something more I can do, obviously painting is not an option?

IMG20230408071022 - Copy.jpg

MitchellMc

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/144046#Comment_144046

Hi @Kvic,

Your stairs are looking great!

Cutting a channel in 100mm thick concrete is likely something best left to the professionals. It would be remiss of me not to let you know that we do hire a Coates Demolition Saw, but I certainly wouldn't advise you to attempt this work yourself unless you have previous experience with such a machine. Not only is it relatively dangerous work, but I can imagine the machine is quite unwieldy.

Once you've had the channels cut for you and the concrete removed, you'll be free to install your slimline drain and connect it to the stormwater line.

I typically wouldn't advise painting a retaining wall unless it had been waterproofed on the rear side. The paint will act like a plastic bag on the front side, and water will fill up behind it, eventually pushing the paint off the wall.

Please let me know if you have any questions.

Mitchell

Kvic

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/144778#Comment_144778

Thanks Mitchell

I have used grinders before and understand that cut materials fly about so it would be useful to wear a full face mask, place a water hose on the cutting area to contain dust, ear muffs and work away from walls of the direction of flying debris. I am also strong enough to control a heavy and vibrate device.

I think I am up for this challenge and hire that machine.

I assume that the slimline drain system is higher than 100mm so I would dig out some ground, fill it with a base and concrete and while the concrete is wet push the drain channel into the concrete to level the top of the drain with the concrete area.

I don't plan to paint the blocks but before I cut the concrete I might spray my friend the bleach some what weakened or not on the bottoms of the blocks and pressure clean them again with a diluted acid for the the white salt crystals but I assume that I need to be careful not to damage the block?

MitchellMc

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/145331#Comment_145331

I'm also quite proficient with angle grinders, but I'd have to have a good hard think about whether I'd be keen to have a go with one of these machines @Kvic. It might be that I am overly aware of the dangers of angle grinders, so this concern transfers even more to the larger and more powerful version. Just be aware that these types of tools are typically used by trade professionals who have had training and a supervisor that overlooks them. It's great to see you're aware of the required PPE gear.

The Everhard 1m EasyDRAIN Compact Polymer Grate And Channel is 80mm high, so it will need something to raise its height slightly. I like the idea of embedding it in concrete, as you can then tap it down to be flush with the surrounding surface.

I would imagine it would be quite difficult to remove that white salt staining (efflorescence) from the wall as it's migrating from within the blocks to the outside. As you've mentioned, you'll need to be careful not to discolour the blocks further, so I would recommend doing a test section before committing to the whole wall.

Mitchell

Dave-1

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/144046#Comment_144046

Good morning @Kvic

I was nervous about cutting concrete and actually got my mate who is a carpenter/builder to do the cuts for me and then I removed the concrete.

Things I am aware of now when cutting concrete.

The depth of the concrete could be anything really. It depends on who put it in originally and the dips and turns of the ground underneath.

I had the foundation of the wall under the concrete I was cutting just like you to put in drainage.

Is there any outside garden lighting/power that may have been run under the concrete before it was laid?

The difference between myself cutting the concrete and someone who does it all the time is a huge difference. I was able to fit pavers in the cut as the line was so straight. I know if I cut it... well I am sure it would have been jagged for all sorts of reasons.

Fix water ingress issues in garage is the project that shows the cut across the driveway. I was lucky as it was just one long cut as the driveway wasnt conected to the slab of the garage.

Dave

Kvic

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/144779#Comment_144779

Thanks Dave

I have all the plans for the house which does show where all the utilities infrastructure is and pretty confident about not hitting something essential but I did take in Mitchell concerns and contacted hipages for a quote.

I had a concrete cuter tradie come out and take a look at this job, still waiting on the quote, while he agreed to my drawing above he made an experienced observation that I did see and made an unexperienced decision.

The concrete is sloped to run water to the centre of the entertainment area and running the slimline drain in a different direction to gravity I would end up with a drain that would be lower than the concrete surface at one end or a drain that was level with the surface but the water would sit in the drain.

The solution seems to be placing a grate on top of the concrete and cement the channel back in with a slant to runoff the water to the storm water drain that is shown on the house plans.

I want the drain to be as flush as I can get it for safety but I should consider a grate that sits on the concrete with shoulders that sit inside the channel to hold it in place which would also hide the cut surface and be a few mm higher than the surface.

But I can find this grate at bunnings as yet or if some one has a better idea

Screenshot 2023-06-06 105259.png

Dave-1

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/145332#Comment_145332

@Kvic

I like the thinking, would the underside still need to be a drain of some kind as I would expect the stormwater to eat away under the concrete slab? Or am I missing something? I like how the edges would hide any messy cut edge of the concrete. I havnt gone down the track of a heavy duty grating like this so I cant suggest a place to by one.

Dave

EricL

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/145332#Comment_145332

Hi @Kvic

I suggest having a look at this option. Instead of having wings for the drain cover why not create a ledge inside the the drain channel itself to hold the cover. If done precisely there will be no tripping hazard when the grate is put into position. Plus, the drain channel can be levelled in the correct position so that the water gets drained away instead of settling in the middle.

I've placed a sample image below to give you an idea of how to build the channel. The cover grate I've used is the EasyDRAIN Pressed Galvanised Grate, there are a few other options, but I believe this one will suite your needs nicely.

If you have any questions about the sketch, please let us know.

Eric

Kvic

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/145766#Comment_145766

Thanks for that Eric

Lots of detail and work

This last rain we had gave me the opportunity to gauge the water problem at the bottom of the steps after the drainage system placed in the backyard above the steps.

The water pools around the base of the steps and has a hump in the concrete slab before the water can run into the drain in the middle of the entertainment area.

Any water unable to get over the hump is pooling and can be there for many days but I noticed that the water lays next to the expansion material between the slab and the blocks.

I also added some colouring in the water before the drain above the steps was laid and it could be seen that water is coming out from the surrounding areas to the slab and from under the steps and under or along the expansion material.

Bottom of stepsUnder steps

I decided to test my theory.

I got my long wood hand saw and was able to remove the expansion material between the blocks and slab and the next day after a rain the slab was dry.

It seems that the water has run along or between the slab and blocks to the garden area by gravity.

This is the area after the rain, cleaning, painting and the expansion material being removed.

The day after

A couple of notes about using the saw. The concrete slab is around 100mm thick but I was able drive the blade 200mm into the cavity as I want to run the drain across the front of the steps and down the block wall but was given many reasons not too but I may rethink this.

What do you think Eric or should I just leave in alone as it seems I have achieved my goal.?

Which brings me to my next goal. I wanted to solve or reduce the water problem as much as I could which I have not seen any muddy water since the drain above the steps and the water there has been clear at the bottom of the steps and now the pooling is reduce or gone!

I want to repaint the slab.

Do I need to prep the slab before painting and what would you recommend for a paint, thanks ralph

MitchellMc

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/146089#Comment_146089

That's looking fairly good @Kvic. If the water is draining away, that was the intention.

Painting the concrete does require preparation. It's a bit hard to tell from the images, but was the concrete previously painted? Concrete paints are designed to go onto bare concrete or previously painted concrete where the paint is still in good condition. Your paint appears that it has worn away and would not be considered a good condition, so you'll find most concrete paint manufacturers won't recommend their products over this surface unless the current paint is removed. There is the Rustoleum concrete paint available in the colours Armour grey and Battleship. It can be applied over a compromised coating if you use Rust-Oleum 3.78L Concrete & Garage Recoat Primer. Unfortunately, it is only available in those two colours, though it appears the previous coat was also grey.

Please let me know if you have any questions.

Mitchell

Kvic

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/146368#Comment_146368

Hey Mitchell

According to my partner, she wasn't aware that the concrete was painted till she had power wash the surface and it would come off while cleaning.

While I did not notice any paint coming off on it's own or patches of loose materials of concrete she did say that she would try removing it with the pressure cleaner, that's not to say the paint is in good condition, I just think is would look great painted.

Most likely the colours of the 2 paints you have suggested would be close to the color on the concrete use in the day.

You didn't mention a way to prep the concrete so I will assume that would be difficult?

The primer mentions: Eliminate the need to sand, strip or grind off previous coatings. Simply clean, prime and coat

They all sound difficult but the concrete and the paint still attacked seem firm.

I didn't see the sense of painting the slab until the area was at it's best and I would like to see a really good rain, one like the video I posted earlier and make another video that shows the difference all this work and great information I was provided to see the result.

The partner says she can see a difference and thinks the water problem has subsided then that is the best appraisal.

Thanks Mitchell.

Noyade

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/146597#Comment_146597

Morning @Kvic

Your steps look good - but in the photo, is it still a problem to clean leaves and debris from behind? Just a mental exercise really, but I liked that product you mentioned earlier. However the maker won't give a price unless you become a member or e-mail them.

Just a Public Holiday thought.

Anyway, I was wondering if they could be 'hinged' - then lifted and propped - for easier cleaning behind them?

Just coffee and idle thoughts. 🤔

Kvic

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/146787#Comment_146787

Hi Noyade

The steps are very heavy and while you could hinge them I would think shoving the broom between the steps would be much more easy and only take minutes.

My partner suggested a leaf vacuum cleaner.

Maybe you could hinge a step, I share your passion to think beyond the normal!

Yes it can be monotonous in winter to find leaves back under the steps the next day then comes the other seasons and not so bad or ever green plants and trees.

As for email address to protect yourself, the trend is to setup a bogus email and personal details.

MitchellMc

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/146597#Comment_146597

That's the primer I linked to @Kvic. You just need to clean the concrete, apply the Rust-Oleum 3.78L Concrete & Garage Recoat Primer and then you can paint the area.

Mitchell

Child Item