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Can I add a concrete apron to an old house with crawl space?

Hello experts,

I am planning to have a concrete apron on LHS and RHS. I am thinking of 1700 MM on LHS and 700 MM on RHS.The land is slightly sloping from RHS to LHS. My LHS looks like the following,

LHS LHSFRONT-LHS

My RHS is like below,

RHS RHS

This is a 40-60-year-old house with a crawl space. One of the concreters said that on LHS, I should not be doing concrete from the foundation/brick wall; instead, I should leave a 500-700mm gap and then have a concrete path. On the RHS side, he suggested that I should not do any concreting as my neighbour's house is at a higher elevation. The crawl space is shown on LHS side here.

I am not fixed on doing concreting. The problem I am trying to fix it,

During rain, I should be able to walk from the pergola to the road through LHS/RHS side without mud.
A clean look. The current roadbase looks dirty.

Other things that are worth noting are,

The stormwater goes to the back of the property. My plumber says I might have a pit.
I am not sure if concreting would make the existing situation worse.

Please share your experience on if I should be doing concreting.

Thanks and Regards

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Comments

JacobZ

Hi @gjoshi,

Thank you for your post and welcome to the Bunnings Workshop community, it is fantastic to have you with us.

I suppose the question comes down to the lay of the land and where the water currently flows to. You've indicated that the land runs right to left and that the neighbour on your right-hand side is at a higher elevation to you.

I believe the concreters comments come down to water management and their belief that adding concrete paths will reduce the ability for water to drain into the soil, causing it to flow towards the house.

Their opinion is definitely worth considering, but looking at your images, if adding sufficient drainage around the concrete, I don't feel that you would negatively affect your home by adding concrete paths.

Assuming that alongside your concrete, you install sufficient subterranean drainage in the form of ag-pipe and surface drainage in the form of drainage channel, both being connected into your stormwater outlet, I think it should be fine, but you should consider that your concreter and plumber were able to assess the whole situation in person, whereas I am working off images that provide limited scope.

If you wanted to avoid altering the area entirely, you might like to consider simply installing a stepped paver pathway, with drainage gravel or decorative stones around the pavers. This will allow the water to drain through the stones and then into the earth, while still allowing you to keep your feet dry and free from mud while there are downpours.

You might like to check out Top 10 most popular side yard projects for some examples of similar projects.

Allow me to tag some of our knowledgeable members to see if they have any thoughts, @DIYGnome, @Dave-1, @Nailbag.

Jacob

Dave-1

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/40945#Comment_40945

Evening @gjoshi

When I was looking at your photso my first thought for the rhs was "woooo thats a little damp, needs drainage" Flicking between the photos I can see the plumbers concerns about where the water will end up.

I like @JacobZ's suggestion about the ag pipe and drainage channel with the concrete for sure.

I like his second idea even more, the stepping stones with an agpipe and gravel underneath and with pebbles filling in between pavers would be the best of both worlds. Keeping your feet dry plus giving somewhere for the water to drain to.

I would also investigate where your stormwater ends up and if possible can it be directed to the street guttering. Your ground could be so damp because the water from your roof ends u going down the downpipe and nowhere really for it to travel afterwards. Working that out may dry your yard faster?

Dave

Nailbag

Hi @gjoshi I can certainly appreciate wanting to have solid dry ground under-foot. Concrete is very expensive these days and not getting any cheaper compounded by the steel mesh which is going up several times and year.

As @JacobZ mentioned, I would get your plumber to assess the ground level and install grate and agg drainage and consider paving the areas. Concrete will be around 100mm in depth, and depending on how solid your existing road base is you might get a small saving on depth with pavers on compacted sand, which sits in-between.

I would go the stepping stones idea down the skinny sideway that would rarely be accessed and then pavers on the main walkway with a small return to where the bins are stored. If you had stepping stones on the main path, it will be a pain wheeling the bins especially when heavy as they will get bogged in-inbetween.

Regards, Nailbag

gjoshi

Thanks guys. I will post more questions below.

gjoshi

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/40956#Comment_40956

Thank you so much, @JacobZ , @Dave-1 and @Nailbag, for replying. These are some solid advice. My partner loves the pebble and stepping-stone ideas more than concrete, purely from an aesthetic point of view. It mixes well with our large backyard which has a couple of beautiful trees. To summarize, I am thinking of,

White pebble with steppers in the middle on RHS
Pavers on the LHS with a 500 mm white pebble on the foundation side and a small return for the bins.

A couple of more details,

I am on the top hill with a couple of houses on my RHS and the land sloping away from my house downhill.
I have never seen water running off my neighbour to my side. This is what my crawl space looks like from the RHS,

Few questions,

An ag-drain on RHS? There is a stormwater pipe along the foundation wall. Is it OK to put ag-drain along the fence that I share with the neighbour?
Would you suggest ag-drain on LHS? The land slopes towards LHS with me on a higher side
Do you see a problem if I decide to do pavers to the foundation wall?
Should I map where all my drain goes using the camera? My stormwater doesn't run off on the street, it goes in the backyard somewhere.
I will ask my plumber as well. My land slopes towards the backyard and the surface water flows off to my LHS neighbour. What are my options if the land gradient doesn't allow me to take the stormwater to the road?

For my curiosity, why did the concretor did not suggest concreting to the foundation,

Rising damp can't escape? How would that make it worse for the foundation?
Hydrostatic pressure? This could be a reason.
If I do pavers to the foundation, would it not cause these problems?

Looking forward to your opinion/comments/advice.

Thanks and Regards

Nailbag

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/82616#Comment_82616

Hi @gjoshi

Few questions,

An ag-drain on RHS? There is a stormwater pipe along the foundation wall. Is it OK to put ag-drain along the fence that I share with the neighbour? YES its your side of the fence.
Would you suggest ag-drain on LHS? The land slopes towards LHS with me on a higher side. Probably not if your own the higher side. But check options with the plumber
Do you see a problem if I decide to do pavers to the foundation wall? Not if you install a suitable drain/agg system parallel to catch the water before it reaches the pavers.
Should I map where all my drain goes using the camera? My stormwater doesn't run off on the street, it goes in the backyard somewhere. YES. I would like to know where the water is draining to and see if could be diverted to the street gutter
I will ask my plumber as well. My land slopes towards the backyard and the surface water flows off to my LHS neighbour. What are my options if the land gradient doesn't allow me to take the stormwater to the road? The plumber would be best positioned to answer this

Installing vents in placement of bricks around the sub floor level will allow for air flow which would significantly reduce the chances of rising damp.

Regards, Nailbag

MitchellMc

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/82616#Comment_82616

It's great to see you've received a response from @Nailbag, and I'd agree with their recommendations, @gjoshi.

It's a bit hard to know what exactly has influenced your concretor to advise as such. It could just be a hunch that issues would occur, or it could be years worth of experience in the area. It might be best to take the information we've provided and then follow up with them to understand better.

Please let us know if you have any questions.

Mitchell

Dave-1

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/106106#Comment_106106

Afternoon @gjoshi

My answers would be the same as @Nailbag 's with one more bit to add.

If you find where your stomwater ends up in the back yard you might consider a sump pump configuration if the yard ends up boggy or your neighbours are getting a large quantity of water from you.

The under the house space does show signs of water against the brickwork, that darker colour is from moisture possible seeping through under the foundations. I was getting the same issue before I ripped up the concrete path next to the brick wall. It dosnt always run but always seemed to be discolured.

Dave

gjoshi

Thanks a lot, @Dave-1, @MitchellMc , @Nailbag. I am glad there is a clear consensus on suggestions. I appreciate the suggestions. Following is my plan,

I should be okay with either concrete or pavers on the LHS side. Ag-drain is optional as it's on the higher side. This is probably why I don't see a lot of dampness on this side compared to others. I should divert the surface water away from the house. Purely from the aesthetic point of view, we are inclined towards pavers on the whole path. I'll probably source landscaper services for this.
I am planning to put Ag-drain on the RHS side towards the fence. We are planning for white pebbles along with step pavers. The only question I have here is, Is it OK for the surface water to fall on pebbles and flow through ag-drain?
I have asked my plumber to come next week to have a look at the storm drain. I am in a hilly suburb. I would prefer to rely on gravity with the sump pump being the last option. I started digging on my own and noticed the storm drain going towards the backyard. I will rely on technology to figure out where it goes.

I will keep you guy posted on how it goes. I'll summarise my experience in the end for others to make use of.

Thanks

Dave-1

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/41086#Comment_41086

Evening @gjoshi

Sounds like good steps 🙂 The failing rain on the bebbles down to the ag pipe is the way it should work. I have gravel all around my ag pipe next to my garage and even after a rainpour event there is no water pooling on my pavers 🙂

Dave

Nailbag

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/41086#Comment_41086

Loom forward to the next update @gjoshi. and yes I would expect t's "OK for the surface water to fall on pebbles and flow through ag-drain" as long as that part of there plumbers design for the system.

Nailbag

gjoshi

Thanks @Nailbag @Dave-1. This is why I asked if the ag-drain needs to be parallel to the foundation/stem wall or towards the neighbour boundary. It is not a massive runoff - https://www.youtube.com/shorts/yMlM9yhdv6E. I'll keep you posted on this.

Thanks

Dave-1

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/41182#Comment_41182

Morning @gjoshi

Id have the ag-drain closer to the fence line, mostly because of any overflow from the gutters as genereally the underside of teh eve wont have direct rain on it. In the area next to my garage (about the same width as your side yard) I actually did a bit of a snake shape tho it was only for around 2m worth of pipe. Im not sure which would provide a better drainage style "snake" or "straight ag-pipe tho.

Dave

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