How to build a new deck where current pavers are?

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/36835#Comment_36835

Hi Jacob,

I wasn't expecting such a fast response! I went to my local Bunnings yesterday but they told me to come back Tuesday to ask a tradesman, so this is awesome, Thank you.

Ive attached some pictures, ideally I prefer not to go from the pavers as it will make the deck very high.

I would add my DIY ability is somewhere between beginner and intermediate 🙂 I have build gates, fences and screens previously but not much more.

Ric

JacobZ

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/80655#Comment_80655

Hi @ricm,

For the best results with a deck, my advice is always to add posts concreted at a suitable depth for strength and rigidity. This is not a difficult process, but it is labour intensive and will mean you'd have to remove some pavers and dirt.

Would it be possible to do a mock-up of where you want the deck to go? Additionally, some basic measurements of the area would help.

This will help me better visualise what you're trying to achieve and offer more tailored advice on what products and timbers would be best for a deck in this area.

In the meantime, you may also want to do some research on your local councils' regulations on decks as it may have some bearing on the size of deck you can build without council approval. This will also help to guide you on what is and isn't possible without professional assistance.

Decks aren't too difficult to build as long as they are well thought out and a good plan is put in place beforehand. I'm excited to see what you can achieve, so please keep in touch.

Jacob

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/104907#Comment_104907

Hi Jacob,

Many thanks,

I've mocked up something. I don't want to plan it all just yet but I have grand plans and if I can complete the first part I will move on to the next phase. See the first 2 phases. We want to use composite decking. The 3rd phase would involved replacement of the old timber decking (not on pics) as well so it's a biggy!

Regarding the step between the pavers and the brown bricks level, happy to leave the step OR create a slope, OR heighten in line with the white pavers.

Wondering just where to start tho!

I have checked the council and we are good to go on the size and height of the structure.

Thanks again Jacob. phase 1 plan.jpg phase 2 plan.jpeg

JacobZ

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/119558#Comment_119558

Hi @ricm,

I'd suggest a place to start might be to assess whether it is possible to remove the pavers to allow for post holes to be dug. You might like to try to gently remove a paver or two along the fence line to assess what is underneath. My concern with a deck of this size being supported by pedestal feet sitting on pavers is that it relies entirely on the pavers to support both the weight of the deck and the weight of whatever is placed on the deck. You would want to be fairly confident, especially around a pool, in the ability of the pavers to bear weight. Concreted posts are definitely the best way to go and assessing their viability might be the best place to start.

With the second phase of the deck, you might want to have an engineer assess the area as any changes near the proximity of the pool wall are likely to have some effect on it and you wouldn't want any possibility of the pool wall failing.

If you wanted to complete the first phase of the deck as a separate project, you should decide now whether you want phase 1 of your project to sit at the same height as phase 2 or you are happy to have the deck step down. Once phase 1 is completed, there's no real way for you to change the height.

Another thing you might like to look at is a tool list that you would need before starting this project. I would suggest at minimum you would need a mitre saw, drill and impact driver, sawhorses, spirit level, and a hand saw alongside all relevant personal protective equipment including gloves, eye protection, hearing protection, long sleeve work shirt, long pants and enclosed shoes. There are certainly other tools that will come in handy, but at minimum I would say you need the ones I've listed to carry out this job.

Allow me to tag some of our helpful members to see if they have any thoughts or guidance they can offer, @Dave-1, @Nailbag, @TedBear, @Noyade.

Once you've done some thinking about what is possible and what you'll need to do prior to commencing the job, I am happy to offer more assistance.

Jacob

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/119558#Comment_119558

Good Morning @ricm

🙂 Love decks! and trying to figure out how to build them, its liek a puzzle but in 3D.

Going through your pictures a few times I have some questions of course 🙂

Q1 - First one up is "Which paving level" is ground level? The stepped up area looks like it could be level with the fenceline ground level, the rear level looks like it has been built up?

Q2 - The brown curves are where you are thinking of the composite decking?

Q3 - Do you know why the sand has disappeared from under the pavers near the side fence?

If you put a deck over the pavers without removing them I think it may look a little high. Especially near the edge of the pool and the view you would have over the fence.

I would be tempted to remove the top level of pavers and that way give enough room for the deck to fit with a resonable step up to it. I would also figure out why the sand has gone as maybe something pipe wise for the pool is leaking and letting it run away?

As to the support for the deck I would go for a concrete stirup, mainly because the hole with the stirrup in concrete wont move as likely and that way your deck will stay solid. (compared to one of the tuff stuff deck supports)

The last bit about the stages you have planed I agree with @JacobZ about forward planning. If you troll through my bookmarks you will see plenty of sketches, sometimes they come to fruition, sometimes not. But they all help steer me towards something solid. My stormwater rectification is a good example. There was a fix needed for the stormwater itself and that was planned for, then there was landscaping that would result but I didnt plan for how big it ended up being at first. The more I sat with a coffee and sketched the more it fleshed out. In the end it mad eme pause on certain stages and continue on others so they would all come together. I dislike double handling things 🙂

Dave

Hi @ricm As with both @JacobZ & @Dave-1 recommendations, I would avoid using the existing pavers as the base to support the new deck. The additional weight will most likely cause the instability as they suppress in to the ground under the load. Having said that I don't think you need to pull them all up either. Instead only those 4 at each stirrup as per @Dave-1 suggestion or actual stump. Having said that the issue will be the finished height of the deck where it meets the pool over the copping that nerds to be considered, as this will be substancially higher. Sorry I'm not offering a solution, but considerations as its a complicated project.

Nailbag

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/128429#Comment_128429

Thank you for all of this Jacob. I appreciate you tagging the other guys in too. I have made a note of the tool list, some of these I already have others not. This one is potentially complex as you know so I will have another think about a plan of attack. I very much appreciate your speedy and friendly assistance.

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/128430#Comment_128430

Hi @Dave-1,

Thanks heaps for your thought on this project!
Q1 - the 'ground' level is the brown brick tile area closest to the pool.

Q2 - yes but in general we want to have composite decking all over, we have had timber before and we wanted to try something different.

Q3 - there is a bit of history to that area, when we moved in there were 3 large palm trees and we had to hack them down because not only were they overgrown and limiting to use of the area, after much inspection by multiple plumbers, they were also the cause of crushed pipes deep down involving the main sewer line - these trees roots also managed to completely crush stormwater pipes too so they had to be totally removed and the whole area was repaired with new pipes and such. When the pavers were fitted we were warned that they might sink over time as we were putting them over the remains of the tree stumps.

Totally agree about it being too high on top of pavers, it would mean we are directly looking into all neighbour's gardens which we don't want, so I'm happy to either take ALL the pavers away (there could be a use for them on the side of the house, or just a few key pavers whatever is best and use concrete stirups as you suggest.

Regarding levels, I know the minister for home affairs (the Mrs) wants one level of deck only going from the existing decking area (to be replaced) through to the far right side, with. no dip down to the pool, however as someone noted this will make the pool very steep to get into, so Im not in favour of this, Id rather keep the levels the same (ish) and just add the new decking.

Where do you suggest I begin?

Thanks Dave 🙂

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/36926#Comment_36926

Thanks @Nailbag ! Yes, I totally get that and i agree about the pool pavers height. Need to convince the boss on that one!

I appreciate your thoughts, thanks so much.

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/134143#Comment_134143

Good morning @ricm

Thats a nice area to work with and I do like the minister for home affairs want for a deck the same level as the covered part lol Tho how about a compromise? Maybe most of the area at that same height but a step down of 600mm to 800mm back from the dge of the pool to a lower height deck. That way no steep drop off tothe pool and it will look easier on the eyes? It would also stop the issue of the rotted palm bases dropping the soil level.

I really like the idea of reusing the pavers elsewhere, also like the idea of not having stuff left under a deck. Promotes free drainage and less issue if you ever want to work int hat area in the future.

I would leave the first two rows of pavers next to the pool and have the deck just a tiny bit higher then them but covering them.

Dave

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/80703#Comment_80703

hahaha, good luck with that, we all have bosses to answer to @ricm

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/137737#Comment_137737

Hi Dave,

Im not sure if you will remember me from a few months back.. I was / am still planning my decking.

Just a project update. After going back and forth on whether its a pro job or can I do it, Ive finally decided to do it when quotes came in between 35-100k!!! Im going to be using the 'Good Times' pre-prepared frames as a base - just a few different questions if I may...

1. I will need to get the current area I am renovating prepared and remove pavers to accomodate the frames and decking - it can't go higher as it is already a raised area. What tools might you recommend to help me level the area, remove any groundbase or soil etc? Would a compactor help or some sort of ground digger?

The base of the frame will be a paver (as suggested on the Good Times website) and a support foot.

2. Do you have to use the decking panel or could you use regular timber or composite decking?

3. As you will see from the initial pictures there is a rounded shape pool. How do I deck up to that area? I mean how would affect the frame base?

Thank you in advance!

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/140278#Comment_140278

Hello @ricm

Let me tag @Dave-1 to make him aware of your questions. Before you go with the good time decking, I suggest having a look at these guides - How to build a low-level deck by @Adam_W and How to build a deck by @MitchellMc. This will give you a basic idea of how to build a deck frame. I also recommend having a look at this discussion - Low-level composite deck over concrete and soil by @oninpena. It's an excellent example of a single level low level deck built with angle brackets and pedestals.

For the decking panel itself, I suggest using composite decking as you are near a swimming pool. In regards to your framing question, this is the part where you can be creative and imagine how the frame would be built to compensate for the turns. I propose planning it on paper and see what you can come up with. You can then share your plan with the community and any questions you might have.

Here is a very good example of a low-level deck near a pool - Low-level deck for pool area by @Marty_McFly.

Here is a link for ideas and inspiration: Top 10 most popular deck projects

I also suggest having a look at the Bunnings video guide on deck building:

If you have any other questions we can help with, please let us know.

Eric

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/142007#Comment_142007

Morning @ricm

I do remember your question 🙂 and just went through it again to refresh my memory.

This is the link to the Good Times Decking When I first googled it and got the tv series 🙂

I have not used that system before. I have used the Stirrups for when I built my deck.

Pool deck stage 1

Pool deck stage 2

Are links to my deck that I built. I am never overly keen on prefabbed parts as putting them together can sometimes take the same amount of time as building it yourself.

@EricL has some good suggestions to follow and I seriously recommend to buy/grab an A4 notepad, pencil and eraser and go for a coffee at a quiet cafe. Sit there and sketch out what you have. Then hard point the corners of the deck, pool, other items so they will be the exact same on the underlying page. Once you have transfered the main points through, then you can start to figure out how to put the supports in for the decking you want. (Even the good times decking 🙂 ) and work out distance wise where they join and how often you will need piers/screw feet.

If you scoll through my projects you will see plenty of times my sketches have been at the start of the projects. It really helps solidify what you need and the points that you start with and go up from there.

As to low level deck, your supports wont be high, if you have concrete based stirrups you wont need to do any ground work other then dig a bunch of holes.

Have a look at @erics suggestions and my projects and let us know of anyquestions 🙂

Dave

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/143267#Comment_143267

Thanks so much Dave, it's great to see your previous work in pictures (Im much more a pictures guy than text).

Just regarding this bit you mentioned:

"As to low level deck, your supports wont be high, if you have concrete based stirrups you wont need to do any ground work other then dig a bunch of holes."

Evaluating the area with the pavers I just won't be able to have the frame (whether it's Good Times or made myself) sitting directly on the pavers because even with a smaller frame height, with the decking above that it will just make the height too much. If I make the area too high I will need to build screening (not sure the neighbours will be up for that) but even if it's ok it'll be more timber to buy, store and build. I think I need to remove all the pavers and go down a little in order the upper section to be ok height wise. And all that is just one section of the garden project !! I'm in no hurry though so I can take it day by day slowly slowly.

I did do a sketch, Im not much of an artist tho lol but its good to have something.

my rough plan

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/144199#Comment_144199

Afternoon @ricm

Nice sketch to start with 🙂 Now you need a profile one to help you with the heights you have in mind.

I would suggest you need to remove those pavers to start with.

Then work with the ground level to the level of the deck you want.

If its to short as you have been saying then the question comes up how do I get enough height for air circulation under the deck and for the deck to be level. Also what to do with the excess soil if you have to remove some.

You currently have a couple of deck step/heights to contend with. I would take a baseline from the deck at your back door and then extend that line to the back fence.

It does seem that that second batch of steps with pavers will be high from the photos. But you need to factor in the step down to your pool. This is the stuff you can play with in your mind with sketches. You have a top down one, lets go side profile and also the profile looking towards the back of your house. This will show up the steps needed to get to the pool, the overall level you choose and if you can incorporate the "hill" that is towards the back fence. Even to the point of a higher raised garden bed you move the excess soil to (just an idea)

I am not sure what the measurements are refering to tho from rear of fence to edge of pool towards the house is 9m?

Some measurements that I couldnt figure sorry.

Width of rear of yard -

From the deck to the rear of the yard -

The height from water surface to the deck you would like and is safe -

Is the timber deck the same heigh as the pavers at the rear of your yard?

Just looking at the photos you have shown again, the new deck will stand out against the old deck by a fair amount I think. Are you considering redoing the deck under the awning?

Just finishing work, will try and have another squiz when I get home.

Dave

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/144885#Comment_144885

Evening @ricm

Ok, have done some sketches.

01 25-07-2024.jpg

Stage one, dosnt have to match exactly what I have drawn, you could go further towards the fence if you wanted but id choose half way to make life manageable. I would leave the stepdown area where you enter the pool as pavers. Would even switch them out for the more modern style ones you have at the back fence. They will handle water a lot better. The stage one decking would have a handrail so people are forced to take the step or you could have a step there as well. You could also pretty much deck up to 10cm from the palm tree itself.

When I was sketching it out it really sank into me that you will need to remove the pavers and escavate the soil so as to allow you to build the substructure for the deck. Even if you dont go with stirrups, bearer, crossbeam and then deck. You could get away with missing the bearers if needed.

02 25-07-2024.jpg

Stage 2 is when you would have to dig out that soil under the pavers I think. (guessing the height level atm) You need to factor in the skimmer box in this section (a lid area in the deck above the box would work) I drew in that handrail next to the paved area also. I have used "Breakboards" (only just found out about the name lol) to seperate the stages plus make it look nicer.

03 25-07-2024.jpg

I am trying to show an exploded view of stage 1 (A) and then stage 2 (B) the way the beams are laid out is so your existing floorboards continue through to the new ones in teh same plane.

With B the edge of the pool and how the beams could overhang their supports by a little. I would not overhang by more the 200mm for the beams from a stirrup/pier. When you get to this stage I would actually lay them on the ground to get an idea on how you will work around the edge of the pool. I would also go for straighter lines so it dosnt look choppy.

04 25-07-2024.jpg

This sketch is to show how to build up from the stirrups/piers whatever is used. You calculate backwards for instance

22mm for the decking timber

90mm for the crossbeams

120mm for the support beams (this step you could skip and just go with lines of crossbeams.

So the depth you need for timber is 112mm plus 80mm air gap say. That gives 200mm space. If you remove a paver near your existing deck and meausure from the top of the deck down to the soil you will see if there will be needed to be removed or not.

When you remove the pavers I would consider drainage and which way water will run when it rains.

Just sketching it out this way shows up holes in my knowledge level. Such as height off the ground, how close to the pool edge do I want to go. Do I want overhang of the pool. Do I want to jump from deck into the pool. Garden edge? All these come together as lego blocks 🙂 One reason I dont like the pre-made panels is trying to get them all right compared to getting a row of stirrups in.... It comes down to your preference and what you feel most comfortable with. I do like your do it in stages 🙂 That gives you a time frame and something that is achievable.

Dave

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/144199#Comment_144199

Hello @ricm

I believe @Dave-1 has posted what was in my mind. One of the things I would suggest with your sketch is to define the direction of the timber pieces you are putting in your deck frame. Are you still keen to have a multi-level deck or are you willing to compromise and just turn it into a single level deck? I definitely think that the pavers must come off in order for you to have a low-level deck. This will also save you from having to keep adjusting the deck due to the paver's uneven layout.

If you need further assistance, please let us know.

Eric

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/140278#Comment_140278

Hi @ricm those drawings @Dave-1 are excellent in providing some detailed guidelines to get this project off the ground. As with @EricL I would also recommend you remove all the pavers as this will allow the freedom to set your height as required and not be defined by the pavers which, may not suit the end result.

One thing I don't think you have mentioned, doesn't the pool have a dedicated coping or is that the last row of the pavers? If there is any stone (pavers or coping) surrounding the pool, If so I would leave them in place. Rounded edged pavers/coping is far more friendly on the hands and body getting in and out of the pool than decking. Plus the edge of the decking will deteriorate and start to split and deform over time.

Check out the photos below of a deck I built around a pool, which might give you an idea of what your end result may look like. You can see that similar to you I had around 300mm depth. The joist were 20mm below coping height to have a continuous level in to the pool edge once the decking was installed. My jigsaw got a hell of a workout cutting each board to match the curve. It's pretty easy, just lay the board on top, trace the curve against the coping edge and make your cut. I integrated an umbrella holder with PVC pipe to have a place to soak in the pool under shade with a cold one.

Regards, Nailbag

5 Backyard.jpg

7 Backyard.jpg

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/145422#Comment_145422

Dave - thanks so much - so much to go over here you are very kind to spend this time and effort on me.

Do you live in Sydney by any chance?

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/145839#Comment_145839

Morning @ricm

🙂 No problems, I can remember when I first decided to do my deck next to the pool and how I couldnt get my head around a point to start anything. I really wanted to start but was nervous about levels and how to so totally feel your questions 🙂

I am from South of Sydney 🙂 A good place to be, well actually since hanging out in here there are so many places around Aus and New Zealand that look absolutly stunning as well 🙂

Dave

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/146159#Comment_146159

Thanks so much for your suggestions again Dave and @EricL, @Nailbag I will go over everything and see whats what.

Im pleased you all seem to be unanimous in your agreement to remove the pavers, so I have started this already. Once this is done do you think a Bunnings Tiller might save the back a bit? I will need to gather up some of the soil/stones and take away which would be easier if it is free-er. What are your thoughts on this?

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/146429#Comment_146429

Afternoon @ricm

You may find a resonable amount of sand under your pavers?

Square shovel, crowbar and a "little trolley that could" aka Gorilla Carts 115L Poly Dump Cart will do it all. The trolley is worth its weight in gold, definently helps the body out more then a wheelbarrow and it tilts the tray up even 🙂

That said if you run into clay then id visit mechanical options 🙂

Dave

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/142011#Comment_142011

That job is amazing @Nailbag ! I love the way you've made it all so perfect around the pool, didn't think it was possible.

I am realising there are a few tools I need to invest in for this. Whilst I do have an electric saw I don't own a jigsaw, I guess that would be important for this?

I've attached a pic below so you'll see where I am up to currently in these very early stages as well as how the edges of the pool are. I was planning on building on top of those smaller pavers so I guess we will leave them in place?

Another question, when I get to it, should I drain the pool I notice you have done?

Cheers

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/143270#Comment_143270

Afternoon @ricm

Definently DONT drain the pool. It can cause a whole bunch of issues if you dont know about.

🙂

Dave

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/143270#Comment_143270

Hi @ricm

I would definitely keep the pavers around the pool attached and as @Dave-1 said don't empty the pool.

Eric

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/143270#Comment_143270

Hi @ricm your project looks very much like mine was. Answering your questions . . . .

A well built concrete pools CAN be drained without issue, this came from a mate of mine who is a pool builder. It's fibreglass ones that shouldn't as they can pop up and crack, break pipes etc. I didn't drain mine, this was a new pool. So, in your case no need to drain the pool.

If this was my project I would be leaving the last two rows of bricks at the pool edge

Tools I used were:

Mitre saw
Circular saw
Drill
Impact driver
Jigsaw
Levels
Tape measure

No to the tiller, but would consider a mini-loader to take away all the pavers, create some clearance for the joists above ground level (50mm) and clear the work area. Remove the last 3 rows of brick pavers by hand so not to disturb the soldier edge/coping.

Nailbag

Keep these two rows

https://www.bunnings.com.au/1116-x-1116mm-modular-decking-70-x-45mm-base-frame-flat-packed_p8451223

Hi all,

OK things getting serious now...

Ive just finished clearing my pavers ready for a lovely new deck. Phew that was tough for an out of shape guy!

Following various bits of advice and budget considerations etc. Ive gone with the following for the deck build:

Approx x35 of these frames:

These for fixing the composite or timber deck boards to the frames:

https://www.bunnings.com.au/klevaklip-88mm-nylon-modwood-decking-concealed-fixing-clip-40-pack_p0116701

This decking:

https://www.bunnings.com.au/ekodeck-137-x-23mm-5-4m-decking-backbeach-leatherwood-designer-series-composite-backbeach-leatherwood_p0109382

This circular saw? Unless anyone recommends a different one, I just wanted something mobile, strong and good for decking:

https://www.bunnings.com.au/bosch-18v-professional-165mm-cordless-circular-saw-gks-18v-57-2-skin-only_p0440398

Here's the ground currently where the deck will sit-

before I start packing the ground down to get it all level, would you say if I use the Good Living Modular decking frames with adjustable heights, I don't need to level the ground (as it is going on left over pavers at each foot position)?

I'm also concerned about the edges of the pool but that's further down the track, really more about the frames that cutting the deck board to fit each part of the pool.

I'd love your feedback guys if you have chance.

Thank you so much,

Ric