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How to build a wooden framework inside a Colourbond shed?

Chumpy81

Hi Everyone

I have a pre existing 6m x 3m Coloubond shed. It would be about 15 years or more old and I want to improve it by doing the following:

1 - Lining the inside walls and roof with structural pine. Most likely 90mm x 35mm H3 rating.

2 - Installing batts/foam board inside the cavities of the walls/roof to create an insulated shed

3 - Fixing 6mm fibre cement to the studs/roof rafters

4 - Painting the walls

5 - Adding electrical wiring (it is already hardwired to a circuit from the house), but will need more cables for extra light fittings and GPOs

6 - Line the flooring with garage tiles

So far I have removed the existing 4mm Amelulin foam insulation and am re-configuring it to attach directly to the walls/roof (I am leaving a small air pocket between the walls/roof for condensation to 'breath')

My next step will be to add the wooden framework along all the walls and roof. So far I have a pretty good idea on how I want to do that but I have some questions:

1 - The shed base framework for the shed skeleton is quite small (about 20mm off the ground x 20mm from the sheds metal walls) and leaves very little room to attach my wooden studs to. Can I attach some steel/zinc extensions along the floor plates to give the wooden studs something to be supported by? I was thinking of using plastic shims under these studs so they are not in direct contact with the 600mm x 600mm concrete slabs the shed sits on

2 - Where the gable roof meets the shed walls there isn't a lot of shed structure to connect the wall studs to. I would rather not drill the studs directy into the thin metal walls as that would leave more problems for weather making it's way into the shed and probably won't provide the support the wood needs to be strong. Can I just leave the vertical studs loose near the roof gable and attach roof rafters to the internal purlins running length ways along the shed? Will this provide enough support for the vertical wall studs?

3 - My sheds foundation is only made up of 600mm x 600mm concrete slabs. Can I anchor any part of my wooden structure into these slabs without cracking/splitting the concrete? It looks as though the base plate structure is already anchored to these concrete slabs.

4 - The existing door is a double slider on small rails at the top. I want to remove this and replace it with a hinged/sliding door that would be installed to a wooden framework at the door opening. The current opening is about 1400mm wide by 1900mm high. Can I build a wooden framework onto the front of the shed walls that will support a door and doorframe?

I have attached as many photos as I have currenty;, but can add others to help with coming up with a plan for my project.

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EricL

Hello @Chumpy81

Welcome to the Bunnings Workshop community. It's sensational to have you join us, and thanks for sharing your question about your shed.

Can you please clarify when you mention 600x600 slabs, are these the composition of your entire flooring or are they just in the corners of your shed? What kind of flooring do you actually have? Can you please share a photo of the actual floor without any covering?

If it is possible to anchor the timber framing, I would suggest using Ankascrews and predrilling into the 600x600 slabs. It is possible to use shims to provide a gap between the slab and the timber frame.

It would be possible to screw into the purlins, but I would suggest building an independent roofing frame that is supported by the timber walls. I propose thinking about building a free-standing timber frame inside the shed that is self-supporting and does not need to be anchored to the shed walls at all.

Pre-drilling into the 600 x 600 slab base might be possible, it all depends on how thick it is and how far from the edge you’ll be drilling into. If it is possible the AnkaScrews should hold firmly onto the concrete slabs.

In regard to your door proposal, this is definitely doable, and if you provide enough room for the doors to swing out and miss the side walls there should be no issue with building this type of opening.

Let me call on our experienced members @Dave-1, @Nailbag, @TedBear, @JoeAzza and @DIY4Knuckleheds for their recommendations.

Here is a link to our best advice: How do you add insulation to a garage or shed?

Here are some discussions regarding shed insulation:

I'm sure you'll find plenty of ideas in the discussions on how to insulate your shed.

If you need further assistance, please let us know.

Eric

Chumpy81

The 600mm x 600mm slabs are the entire flooring of the shed. They make up the foundation for it. I will look into the Ankascrews to bolt the timber frame into the slabs. Slabs are approx 30 - 40mm thick

I would rather use the existing purlins and girts of the shed to fix my timber frame to. This will give it more strength in the long run. My only concern would be the flex the shed naturally has vs the wooden framework inside it.

If yu look at hte photos I have included in this post you can see that I am thinking of fixing some 42 x 35mm H3 pine directly to the purlins for the roof rafters to be connected to. Rather than connecting them directly to the metal purlins only.

My girts run around the parameter of the shed at about 1m off the ground, apart from the front door face where the girts are only about 15mm thick to allow room for the sliding doors. I will replace these girts with timber to allow more structural strength for the doorframe.

My next question would be can I anchor the timber batterns directly to the concreate slab? Or should i raise them slightly to allow breathing room for the concrete that brings moisture up from the ground. The slabs do have a plastic membrane under them, but water still makes it way inside along the thin metal walls. It is sealed around the edges, but water will always find a way in. I would rather the timber is propped off the foundation to prevent any further rotting. If I anchor the timber to the ground I can have some spacers between the timber and the concrete. Like a 'washer' on the ankascrews. Woudl this work?

TedBear

Hi @Chumpy81 that's quite a project you've taken on. Having lined a section of a steel sheet myself, I think the idea of creating a separate wooden frame within the steel shed is the most sound way to go. Your are right to be wary of screwing anything to the steel outer walls. That will allow water through and the panels aren't design to support anything. The shed is designed to be able to flex a little in the wind, as you know. I attached my timber frame using what is best described as wooden T pieces, that I made out of pine, which hooked into the channels of the metal framework, without actually being screwed to it. The wooden uprights were held in place by being compressed against the steel frame (by the T pieces) and by the support of the rest of the timber framing. Keep the bottom frames away from the slabs, as you are planning to do, to prevent water that seeps through the cement from rotting them.

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/101768/steel-shed-corner-converted-into-an-exercise-area?utm_source=community-share

MitchellMc

Thanks for the additional information @Chumpy81.

I think your concern about moisture is also well founded. Since you’re already getting some water entering around the shed walls, I wouldn’t sit the timber directly on the concrete. Plastic packers beneath the bottom plate would be a better approach and would keep the timber separated from any moisture on the slab. I’d use several packers along the length rather than washers just around the fixings, so the timber remains properly supported.

Fixing your timber framing back to the existing purlins and girts also sounds reasonable. Just remember that you’d simply be pinning the frame back to the shed and connecting the two. You can’t rely on the relatively lightweight shed structure to support the timber framing. The timber frame itself will still need to be self-supporting.

Here are a couple of helpful articles: How to waterproof a shed floor and How to install a shed floor.

Mitchell

Dave-1

Good Afternoon @Chumpy81

I agree with the separate support structure compared to having it against the walls of the tin shed, I do like @TedBear's suggestion tho. I also like the idea of some spacers underneath the bottom struts to get away from moisture. The 40mm pavers is my only concern and I would try an masonry bolt first and assess to see if it cracks the pavers.

As to the power, I would talk to a sparky to get a better idea of what should be needed at least rule wise. Its a metal shed and you are wanting multiple GPO's. Instead of running out lighting and power to the shed maybe they can install a subpanel. I am unsure of the rules for shed so definitely wiser to check into it. Is the existing circuit hardwired for lighting or power?

Dave

TedBear

Hi again @Chumpy81 I agree totally with those who've said that the internal timber frame needs to be self supporting.

I may have misled with my description of clamping my timber uprights to the shed uprights. The shed steel uprights do not take any weight and only held the timber uprights in place so I could then build the rest of the supporting framework. I couldn't see any need to remove the simple wooden clamps since they aren't bolted on and the steel frame can still move as before.

Chumpy81

Hi everyone

Thanks for the support and advice. I think i will try to build the wooden structure to be self supporting. I will fix it onto the mid metal internal framework as its quite a rigid structural part of the shed and will create a bit more strength for the wooden structure that will be difficult to be self supporting due to the nature of my sheds internal design.

I will put 70mm H3 timber along the bottom and prop it off the floor with rectangular plastic spacers to prevent moisture getting into the timber from being in contact with the floor. After some advice I won't anchor the timber to the concrete floor as the slabs are quite thin.

I need to concentrate on removing a root under the pavers near the entrance before I go ahead and build the wooden structure. As I get closer ill post photos of my progress to see if I'm on the right track

Adam

EricL

Hello @Chumpy81

For extra protection, I suggest painting the bottom of the timber base and sides with Gripset Betta 1L Waterproofing Membrane Bitumen Rubber. It should provide adequate protection against rainwater and incidental exposure to moisture.

Eric