Poll: What heating does your house have?

@Jason, we have ducted reverse cycle, which is great, but like all climate control systems, it must be used sensibly, & for maximum efficiency, the home insulated to the max.

During the cold spell, our unit got put on when we rose to take away the chill, & then shutdown after an hour or less later. That did it for the day, unless we returned from outside, & were chilled to the bone.

I don't dictate a policy of only putting it on if we're freezing, it can go on at any time, the only proviso, is that we're dressed appropriately, & once warmed through, it goes off.

It's worked so well, that Tania voluntarily lowered the cut in point for it to cut in, down to 21C.

In truth, our roof insulation isn't to modern standards (40yrs/old), it's dust laden & sparce in places due to various ceiling installations like downlights etc.

I'm not here to convert anyone to any particular heating/cooling system, in fact, using what you have is the best system. Using it sensibly, & if possible complimenting it with the best insulation that is affordable, along with sensible clothing, will bring rewards.

John1

We have reverse cycle in the wall type.

If it gets cold use it. We have 15 solar panels for power on our roof and solar water besides. We still get a bill but we are glad it's not what it would be without the solar panels.

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/1604#Comment_1604

We're still in the build stage but still discussing the best way to go for heating and cooling both from a "save the world" prospective and what we can afford now or even later.
We originally thought, definitely a wood heated but for me personally, I hate the soot these devices cover the interior of the home in and then hubby is over 70 and I don't for a moment expect him to still be actively sourcing and cutting wood but to buy it at todays price is somewhat prohibitive as well, so we both agreed with a reverse cycle system, as we are very busy farmers and are in and out all day mostly and only turn on the heat if we are in for lunch for example and it is bitterly cold but then it's off and we're back off.
Still debating an evaporative cooler for the summer months as that would be ducted throughout the home unlike the reverse cycle system that would be used for heating the lounge/kitchen/dining mainly.
Also looking at the slimline electric wall heaters, like the Knobo for example just for those rooms like the office that's a bit too far from the reverse cycle system.
As for solar, would love to have it but we have to save for that, we will have solar for the pool at least, but that will be poly piping not solar panels.
Bathroom will have a heated towel rail and a Tastic, love the Tastic for that couple of minutes that you're naked in the bathroom when it's only 5* outside!!!

Kermit

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/63083#Comment_63083

Instead of a wood fire you might consider a gas fireplace, particularly if you have access to gas (might not be a great option if you have to use LPG bottles). They can be really beautiful and are good for quick instant heat which might suit for coming in for lunch.

We're in Melbourne and installed a couple of Jetmaster units when we renovated nearly a decade ago now. They are certainly not cheap, but they are relatively inexpensive to run, look fantastic and it’s a lovely heat. People have even mistaken them for a real fire, particularly as we installed one of the units in a fireplace. They are the only heating we have in the house and we would do the same thing again. We particularly like having the main unit in the living area on a timer so it automatically comes in before we get up in the morning and again in the late afternoon before we get home.

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/94039#Comment_94039

@Kermit,

I would love gas but alas I have two things against it.

#1 Is hubby hates it and thinks it's dangerous and perhaps it can be but I think having two cooking sources would be great when the power does go out randomly here at times.

#2 We're not on mains, so yes bottled would be a nuisance although I know of many people who have installed the real large tanks away from the home.

I've been thinking of an electric version of your gas "fire" look, as they can look equaly real from what I've seen in my research on google.

Currently we live in a relocatable that has a small reverse cycle system and I program it to come on at 5am as I milk cows for a local dairy farmer in the off season and at least I don't get up into a freezing room. It sets me off for the morning not being cold.

I have family in Melb, Doreen to be exact but I live 45km west of Geelong.

Brad

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/63083#Comment_63083

There are now some solar roofing products you can now use.

Tractile also heats water as part of the system.

Monier Solartile similar to Tractile minus the water heating.

Stratco Solatile lacks visual appeal with how they mount it.

Bluescope was working on it too, has a demo house but no product to buy yet.

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/94040#Comment_94040

@Brad,

I have googled your products including the bluescope solartile. They are fantastic products and the Monier Solatile looks fantastic. We have a BRAND NEW colourbond roof, so alas it's far too late to take advantage of such new technology, well unless we win tatts!!

It's dissapointing that no one in the plumbing industry ie: the roofer, supplier etc... made any mention of this new and inovative system that I personally would have loved to have been able to use, although I have no idea just how much more this kind of new technology would have cost but our simple colourbond roof was $20,000.

We have no issues about placing panels on the roof and in fact we also have a farm shed far bigger in area to the house that could carry the panels too, which would mean we wouldn't need to put anything on the new roof of the home.

Very happy to eventually try some kind of solar but it's all about the money. We are building our home entirely ourselves and with our own money and have been at it now for 9 years. We are hay contractors and we need to have a good season to be able to filter funds from the business to the house building and in some years, that hasn't been able to happen, hence the protracted time frame thus far.

Putting up some sort of solar system would be big $$$$ and we still have to save $15,000 to bring power to the home, $5,000 on a sewerage system and a further $25,000 for the kitchen, not to mention, carpets, etc...BUT we will get solar as soon as we can however, ity may just be a few years off still.

Thankyou for your input all the same, it's great to know there are some great new designs coming along for the next generation of builders!!!

Cheers,

Barbara

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/113339#Comment_113339

@Baretta11would you consider going with a Geo Thermal airconditioner & maybe even hot water?

http://www.ausgeothermalhvac.com.au/

If you have a backhoe, or can borrow one, you'll save a large chunk of money on the install.

You mentioned that you're interested in ducted evap air/con, going with a ducted Geo unit, you'll have the flexibility of cooling or heating only the rooms that you want.

As a bonus, due to savings in running costs, you'll get away with a smaller solar system.

Hope this helps.

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/124238#Comment_124238

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/131527#Comment_131527

We looked into geothermal over 10 years ago, before we even drew up the house plans but the guy we were getting info from seemd a little too shonky and we were scared off him, although never off the actual idea. It is a very normal system in America as I understand it!!

I have downloaded the information to the link you attached and hubby and I will have a good read of it again.

Not sure if it needs to be done during construction and if so then it would be too late but I suspect such a system could be retrofitted otherwise it would have very limited use.

As I said I haven't read the info yet but I'm excited that we may infact be able to go back to our original idea.

As for a backhoe or excatator, have a good friend with one that is going to put in our sewerage tank, how lucky is that!!

Thanks for the link.

Cheers,

Barbara

Deanna

I posted a thread about this, but I got a bio ethanol fire-place this week to take the chill out of my lounge room as my reverse cycle is at the back of the house in the kitchen/dinning/bedroom area. If turn the reverse cycle on prior to lighting the "fire-place" and then turn it off, the heat is maintained 🙂

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/135969#Comment_135969

@Deanna,

So tell me more, please!!

What is the cost of bio ethanol fuel and how do you get it delivered and stored??

Cheers,

Barbara

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/131527#Comment_131527

@Baretta11 they're definitely able to be installed to existing households, & I'd imagine that they'd be more affordable than 10 years ago.

Fantastic that you have a good friend with a backhoe (I thought you did from your build thread), that'll be perfect.

It might also be worth searching to see if you qualify for a rebate for going green.

Deanna

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/139028#Comment_139028

Hi @Baretta11

I get my fuel from a local homewares shop it costs $80 for 20 litres. You can have it delivered. My fireplace burner holds 1.5L of fuel and burns for 4 hours on high.

I'd love to see Bunnings carry some bio ethanol fuel, you can burn Metho if you had to...but I'm sure that would leave a bad smell in the house.

There are pics of it here:
Bio-Ethanol-Fireplace

If you have anymore questions, just let me know 🙂

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/139028#Comment_139028

@Baretta11, if you're drawn to the mesmerising allure of an open flame, download a screensaver for your computer. ; )

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/141079#Comment_141079

Must look into screen savers more.

Last time I had my compouter guru here to do some checks for me, he installed a fish tank screen saver as he knew I loved fish.

Anyway, one day I left the sound on fairly loud and hubby and I searched everywhere for a few minutes to try to find the bubbling water sound until we realised it was just the screen saver ha-ha

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/141078#Comment_141078

@Deanna,

Quick calculation shows about $6 per day for four hours of heating, that doesn't sound too bad with your 20ltrs lasting almost 2 weeks and even during the colder months of late autumn and winter, not every day is freezing and you're probably not using the system for the full 4 hours every single day?

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/142617#Comment_142617

Best say good night to all, must get to the rain room as I have an early start in the morning milking a neighbours dairy cows.
Will continue with our discussions tomorrow.
Barbara

Deanna

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/142617#Comment_142617

It arrived and Tuesday and has been on every night, but I suspect it will get used less when my daughter goes back to school next week LOL

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/113340#Comment_113340

@Baretta11, apologies, when I saw your reply to @Brad, I only read part way through it, & didn't see the massive bills that you're to face. : (

So fair enough, the Geo's off the map.

I'm going to get this off my chest, & not bring it up again, but I hate that energy utilities now charge for connection, once upon a time, it was free, but those days are gone. That $15,000 that they're looking to rip you off for your electrical connection, would go a looooong way towards solar, & battery back up to go off-grid.

The bonus is that you have no cause to deal with them, ever again. : )

Seeing as you've been very sensible insulating walls & ceiling to such high levels, a cheapish portable heater may serve you well until you're cashed up for a more permanent heating/cooling system down the track.

If you have good rain catchment from your barn, maybe that could delay, or you may even be able to do without a water connection. That may be too risky, but with some serious number crunching of roof area & rainfall, it should show whether it's possible. Fingers crossed.

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/124239#Comment_124239

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/124239#Comment_124239

No need to apologise for the thoughts you have shared with me, I really do appreciate all the help I've been getting from everyone.

I must explain my comment about the cost of our power further, as I think I have you mistakenly thinking that it's an energy company cost. Some of the $15,000, about a third is internal connections, lights etc... the remaining $10,000 or so, is in fact the expected cost of the cabling that our electrician is to supply and carry some 80mts from an existing meter on the property to the new home. Underground power cable is sooo sooo expensive due to the copper content as you probably know, so that is where the cost is being chewed up!!

As for actual connection, we already have power on the property in 3 locations no less, it's getting it to the new home that's the issue, so to actually flick the switch to "power on" will be nothing, just the sparky has to wire the cable to the board. We have to use either a trencher or an excavator and that too is an extra cost.

We don't have town water, probably never will but we already have a 45,000ltr concrete tank at the house full and currently overflowing and plan to have a second tank further down the track. We also have two 4,000 ltr tanks on our large workshed and that is pumped up to the cottage for now but can be diverted to the new house with the flick of a lever if we need it but it's doubtful.

As for going off the grid, as I already mentioned, I'm looking forward to the day that we can afford to give it a go and fortunately our sparky is right into solar, so we know he will be very helpful to steer us in the right direction when the time comes

Sorry for the confusion but again thankyou for all your help.

Cheers,

Barbara

Brad

@Baretta11 @Andy_Mann

Having a Google Monier Solartile is around $7500 per KW not close to competative price.

Offgrid for a largish budget system is around $2000 per KW. I think the average user will run out of roof space before they reach utopia. Adding wind power could help but it may not be neighbour friendly just like the backup generator. Cooking with gas is almost a must.

Tractile if I wass building or replacing a roof would get a much deeper look.

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/131529#Comment_131529

Hi Brad,

Until you mentioned these products, I had no idea they were out there.

We don't have a tiled roof anyway as I mentioned earlier.

Our shed is 40mtrs long x 20mtrs wide, so we will be well and truly fortunate to have plenty of room for sufficient solar panels when the time comes, albeit the panels will have to sit on an upright frame to get the northerly aspect properly, as the long side of the shed is north/south.

For that matter our house is 12.5 mtrs wide x 22.5mtrs long, so the house has a great amount of area and facing north too, if we choose to use this roof rather than the shed but personally I'd prefer to fill the shed roof with panels rather than the house roof!!

I have already told the story about a well to do local chap who decided to go off the grid and actually put up a wind turbine with back up batteries and he also installed solar panels and guess what, he's back on the grid, because sometimes there's insufficient wind and other times, insufficient sun!!

I don't think going off the grid COMPLETELY, can work in colder climates like where we live but we can use whats available when it's available and for us that would naturally be in summer!

Out of interest Brad, how many KW if you know, is suggested for a family of four say?

Look forward to your reply.

Cheers,

Barbara

Brad

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/135971#Comment_135971

Average daily use in NSW for 4 people is 25kwh and 32kwh for 5, no mention if gas is used or not, I would think the number would be higher if you don't use gas.

There are calculators out there that would give a closer result.

My house faces south with an l shaped roof on the north side. Solar water heater takes up part of the north roof so panels were installed on the straight western roof.

The back shed with 4.8m of north facing roof had a quote of $30000 to cover it's off grid needs only I ran out of roof for panels. I have enough roof for a sloar/wind option option shopping around I could of done it for 10k in parts.

Old car shed would have enough east roof to add to the house grid feed in system, western roof has shade from next door tree.

Jason

Great to see this topic stimulate plenty of interesting and helpful discussion amongst the Workshop community.

Here's the results of the poll:

Many thanks for joining in the discussion.

Jason

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/135971#Comment_135971

I'm finding it very difficult to work out a strategy that fits your plans & cash flow, so let's see if we can nut something out which will smooth out your journey to comfortable living.

All us Workshoppers know that you & hubby deserve it. ; )

The biggest issue for you both is the unpredictability of income, not that you're alone on that, I know a few people who've gone from having top tier jobs, to being unemployed at the whim of a fiscal board meeting. : (

The brutal reality is that aesthetic pleasantries (expensive or otherwise), need to be put on hold so that what's absolutely necessary (expensive or otherwise) get priority. Point blank, would you prefer an uber expensive underground electrical supply, over a temporary overhead install, with the savings allocated to long term savings or comfort?

Then there's the conundrum of whether to go solar first with inefficient heating/cooling, or opt for a highly efficient heating/cooling system that'll be a long-term solution/investment. When funds permit, install your solar system ahead of the underground electrical supply, again putting savings/comfort ahead of aesthetics.

I head-banged my desk when it dawned on me that with your cathedral ceilings, my push for ducting (overhead) would be ugly, unless you were into the industrial look. The saving grace could be that you have space under-floor for the ducting & floor vents, or did I mess up? Some ceiling fans could circulate the warmth back to ground level, or use a fan assisted heat transfer duct system for that purpose.

Unless the dream kitchen takes ultimate priority, I have a few suggestions, though the qualifier is that I'm a bloke, so I have a vastly different interpretation on what should rule. No argument from me if you push the ignore button, but could the final fix be delayed by compromising with a temporary but workable kitchen, freeing up funds for, let's say, solar?

Another thing that I've struggled with is that in another thread, you asked for tips regarding a damper for your whirlybird vent in your cathedral ceiling. I did find something suitable, though it's not available in Australia, so you've saved money there. ; ) Then it dawned on me that those ventilators are for extracting heat from ceiling spaces, not from rooms, so the easiest solution could be to leave it there, but block the cavity.

That's it from me for now. ; )

Don't hate me.

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/139031#Comment_139031

Hi John,

I'm positively gobsmacked that you have put so much time and effort into thinking things through as to how I might benefit from your suggestions, I think that is very sweet and I'm humbled by it!!

I'm not a hater, never have been, I ALWAYS see the positive in everything so much so, it annoyed my mother no end and she often said I seemed to have an answer for everything, ha-ha

My mum was very negative, I understood why, having lived through the war being Polish and she did not come out the other side unscathed.

One story that comes to mind was when we were travelling through Geelong on our way to a Xmas do in Melb. There was this "hoon" ute with a paragraph of profanities on it, my mother asked what it read, to which I replied that she didn't need to know!!

Well next thing I got growled at and told she was no ones fool and demanded to know what was written on the ute, so I told her, which made her gasp!! I then proceeded to tell her that my son, her grandson, had such a ute and the profanities to boot and he turned out to be a good young man and I further commented that these young boys will no doubt turn out just as good as her grandson did!

Well she was so annoyed with me making positive excuses about these young boys that she told me I needed to go to Russia and live there for a while and see just how horrible life really can be!!

Well I just laughed and laughed, not then but later and said to hubby that I wasn't even allowed to go to Poland where my relatives would be but instead had to go to Russia where I knew no one, nor could I speak the language!! ha-ha

Poor mum, she was so affected by the war that sometimes no one was allowed to be happy!!

So I have strived to be as positive as my mother was negative, hence, hate simply isn't there!!

Anyway, hope you don't mind I digressed somewhat!!

So to try to respond to your thoughts:

Power: Hopefully it will not be too expensive, as I mentioned, we may be able to use a second hand but in perfect order, underground cable that may in fact see us pay next to nothing for it being a very close family friend who has this cable and his son, our sparky that will install it, so certainly cheaper than solar but my issue is having a hubby that hates solar, he thinks it's a big sham about just how much it costs and then just how long the panels will actually last, so it will always be underground first if hubby has his way and possibly never having solar, although I will push for it now and again!!

Cathedral Ceiling:

Is in the pool area only where the roof vents are fitted and I agree that perhaps simply blocking them off could be the easiest option but having contacted the makers of the vents, Edmonds, they have in fact offered one solution for now and that's with a Paltech Round Downjet Diffuser that is fitted into the internal ceiling and together with a cowling attached to the vent. The only downside is that although the diffuser can be closed or open, it is done by a central knob on the diffuser itself and that means trying to reach it above the pool but it's a start. My electrician suggested that fitting a damper with a wall mounted electric control would not be difficult at all but I never discussed it with him any further, so he could in fact have a very easy fix.

Truth is, I really think we will want to have these vents open during summer when the solar for the pool will at times overheat the pool and letting some heat escape through the vents will be handy.

I better explain the solar we're having for the pool too, we will be a roll of poly pipe to a ground built roof and pumped to the pool rather than fitting this pipe on the main house roof, so that we can maintain it without having to climb on the roof of the home and also if it was to leak, we wouldn't want chlorinated or even sanitized water to be able to enter the drinking water.

Heating/cooling:

We have heaps of room in the roof space, with a home 12.5mtrs wide and a 22.5* roof, if not for thecross members in the trusses, we could have a second story ha-ha

We would choose the roof over under floor ducting, as although we do have room under the home too, we are both very **bleep** about any access points for mice having spent allot of time fitting rodent mesh over the air gap between the bricks and the sub floor effectively preventing any rodent access up into the wall cavaties and subsequently into the roof cavity.

All our electrical and plumbing is in the roof with no wiring under the home and only a single access point for the water where it first enters the home.

Kitchen:

I absolutely agree that although the ultimate, you beaut, perfect kitchen will cost us in excess of $25,000, I have no hesitation to live without any of the modcons until such time as we have saved up enough to get it done, but in th meantime, I have a fantastic BBQ and it can sit beside the sink with the toaster on one side and we can be quite set. Cuttlery and crockery can sit in stowaway containers!!

We are very fortunate to have a little relocatable home that is only 30mtrs from the main building which has everything we need, so we are not under any pressure as to a completion date. I think that's why we can remain happy and sane because we're not living in a tent or caravan, although we've done that for a few years too, so we can simply move in when we're happy to do so. We already have almost all our plumbing stuff, shower, basins, tiles etc... for the walls and all the floors, so getting the bsthrooms up and running is doeable to.

Our 1st batch of plaster arrived on Mon and I have been madly hanging it being able to cut and fit all the smaller lower sheets and then preparing all the upper sheets, glue etc... and then I pull hubby away from fitting the door jambs and he helps get the sheet up, puts a few screws in place and then I mark the studs and continue to screw the rest of the sheet to the wall and then off I go for the next measurement. We've managed to put up 6mtr sheets in places over doors and windows without a single fracture or break, so we're very happy with what we've achieved. We also have a plaster lifter for when we start the ceilings and we've used it already to put up eaves on the veranda and it works a treat!!

Been at it all day today and lost count as to how many sheets I actually put up but I thin it's about 14 or so, I'm thrilled!!

Anyway, thanks for your suggestions, lets see what you come up with next!!

Cheers,

Barbara

https://www.workshop.bunnings.com.au/discussion/comment/141081#Comment_141081