What insulation and flooring for a shed in a rental?

[bkjan]

Hi, I'm buying a for a 3m x 1.5m x 2m shed from Bunnings and having them install it.

I'm a disabled pensioner on a tight budget and so any help would be greatly appreciated. I'm almost 70 years old and so the shed and flooring only needs to last for about 10 - 15 years.

However, I am a renter and so cannot lay a concrete stab to attach it to.

• I'm thinking of using treated pine pallets as flooring, is that suitable  (if not, why please) or is there another type of inexpensive flooring that I can use (preferably under $200)?
• Also, I've just found out that I need to insulate the shed, I noticed the foil type insulation at Bunnings, is that suitable, and how does it get attached to the shed. (preferably under $200).
• Or is there something less expensive to insulate my new shed as the total cost of having a shed is really adding up, I had no idea that the shed would need insulation too. (preferably under $200).
• Can I pay extra to have the people installing the shed to also install the insulation?

Thank you so much for answering these questions.

Regards Jan, a very long time Bunnings shopper.

[MitchellMc]

Welcome to the Bunnings Workshop community @bkjan. It's splendid to have you join us, and many thanks for your question about installing a shed.

For context, do you happen to have details on which shed it will be? That would be really helpful when providing accurate information.

To start, shed manufacturers typically state what type of bases their sheds can be installed upon and specify appropriate fixings. Most of the time, this is a concrete base. If you were to stray away from manufacturer directions on suitable bases, you might experience warranty issues, or in the worst case scenario, your shed could blow away in high winds.

Now that we've covered the fact that non-standard bases could void your warranty and would be used at your own risk, we can look at pallets as flooring. Pallets could be used as a sub-floor, bearing in mind that they would have a limited lifespan. I'm unsure if you'd get 15 years out of them, but you should get 5-10. As many pine pallets are not treated, they'll deteriorate relatively fast if they are in moist conditions. If you could get your hands on some hardwood pallets, they would last far longer but are normally hard to find as they are owned by pallet supply companies.

Pallets are not a great surface to walk on as they have spaced boards. This would be a trip hazard, so you'd need to install flooring sheets over them. Something like yellow tongue structural flooring could be suitable, as I've used in this step-by-step guide: How to install a shed floor.

I haven't encountered insulating your shed as a requirement before, and it would be helpful to know the brand and model of the shed so I can enquire about it. Was this a stipulation from the supplier or something you needed to do, as the space will be used for other purposes than storing tools?

The only alternative to foil I can think of is Foilboard, but there are no significant savings to be had there. Foil sarking is not typically installed in sheds, so there are no specific attachment methods I know of. It's installed in home roof cavities and laid over roof trusses prior to tiles being put on. For a shed, you could potentially adhere it to the walls and ceiling with silicone.

I am unaware of an insulation installation service for sheds.

Please let me know if you have any questions.

Mitchell
 

[bkjan]

Thank you so very much for your advice. I'm buying the Bunnings, Absco Sheds 3.0 x 1.52 x 2.08m Monument Space Saver Double Door Shed. I'm having Bunnings install it. But your How to Install a Shed floor is not relevant to my shed (I'll explain)....

I'm disabled and I'll have to hire someone to do all of the sheds requirements, the lists are adding up. Plus I'm a pensioner and need to save as much money as possible.

- I'm so sorry for asking so many questions, but as I'm going to spend at Bunnings over $1,000 so far for shed and insulation. Plus hiring other people to do the rest (flooring, etc), I'm trying to get it right.

• - Note: the area that the shed is going is very sheltered, no strong wind can get in, it's an enclosed small backyard.
• - Once shed is installed, someone on here in another post, recommended putting concrete pavers around the inside lip of the shed. The weight of the slabs will help anchor it, and then use the treated pine pallets to fill in the empty inner floor (these can be free off Gumtree or Marketplace). I'll cover the pallets with some inexpensive timber panels (can you please recommend some?).
• - So far, I only have bare ground which I will level off, with a level. I hope that and the pallets is all that I'll have to do. I'm unable to get any gravel into my yard.
• - I've heard that there is something called Ground Anchors to fix it to the soil (I'm not sure that the one in my photo, is the correct type). Is that correct? Can you recommend which type, to go into soil only. I've just found a video online about it....see image.
• - Also, on Amazon Australia they sell a shed floor mat that I thought would be good to put under the pallets to give extra protection from water. Its called HolyMaji 8 x 6.2 FT Outdoor waterproof, garden shed flooring mat. There are several versions available. Does Bunnings sell something similar (I'll add photo)?
• - About the insulation, I had read about that online, I read that the walls will get damp because of condensation and so insulation is needed to keep your items dry.  I'm going to store household items, mostly on metal storage shelving. Does that sound correct? But if it's not needed, that's great. 
• I look forward to your answers. I'm keen to get the shed installed.
• Thank you for your help. From Jan Lamb, Melbourne.

[MitchellMc]

I have some concerns with your plan @bkjan. Have you ever seen someone make a solar water still? They'll dig a hole, fill it with green leaves and then add plastic over it. When the plastic heats up, water is expelled from the leaves and condenses on the underside of the plastic and drips off into a bottle. When placing the shed over soil, you create similar conditions. When the shed heats up, the moisture in the ground escapes within the shed and condenses on the walls and ceiling, creating a very moist environment. Even when a shed is placed on a concrete slab, and no water can enter it, it's not the best place to store household items due to sheds not being entirely sealed. You'll note I've put together a couple of articles as leaking sheds are an all too often occurrence: How to waterproof a shed floor and How to install a shed floor.

As mentioned in Absco's installation manual:

• The shed shall be erected on top of a reinforced concrete slab and anchored down appropriately

• Absco Sheds and storage units are primarily used for storage of garden equipment such as lawnmowers, wheelbarrows, garden tools etc. Storage items that might be adversely affected by moisture or condensation may require additional protection such as being sealed or covered by plastic sheets and/or stacked above the concrete floor on timber slats

• Other weather conditions such as extreme heat and extreme cold, moist or dry air can influence the effects of concrete floor moisture and/or condensation on the underside of the roof sheets.

Pavers around the inside edge would be better than having no anchors. The Otter ground screw would be another option to provide some form of anchoring.

Structural yellow tongue flooring would be one of the most cost-effective products to use over your pallets. It's also moisture-resistant.

I'm not aware of any shed floor mats, this might have to do with our sheds requiring a concrete slab.

Adding insulation to the interior of a shed on a concrete slab would help prevent heat building up and could inhibit condensation forming. However, with an open bottom shed on soil I don't believe insulation will help in preventing a moist environment.

I recently had a conversation with my wife about storing household goods in our shed, which is on a concrete slab, has sealed walls, and has a raised floor above the slab. Much to her disappointment, I was not confident that the possessions wouldn't be ruined by mould and dampness, so we decided not to store them there. I can certainly understand you are on a budget, but I also need to balance that with following manufacturer directions and the fact that even in the best-case scenario, sheds are not rooms and are typically very moist environments for a substantial part of the year. I'd hate for you to do all this work and have this expense only to not be able to use the space for its intended purpose.

Please let me know if you have any questions.

Mitchell

[bkjan]

Oh dear, your reply concerns me.

- I've seen on TV sheds being used for all sorts of things, especially storing spare household items, as so often people need to store camping gear, beach and fishing gear, extra chairs, items stored in boxes etc etc.

- In the last place that I lived there where 2 small sheds that I stored items in for 3 years and seemed to have no issues.

- The floor was just timber, no slab.

- I don't know what else to use to store extra items. Any suggestions???

- However, if I use the under pallet waterproof shed floor mat (from Amazon) it should keep the ground moisture out.

- then i can put the foil insulation on the walls??

- I've just found some heat treated pallets with sealed tops (no need for the yellow tongue timber). See photo. Are they ok to use.

- I'll keep researching, it seems almost hopeless, but I won't give up, as I really need storage space.

- -- How do I open up my posts so that more people can give advice so to their solutions, I've seen this on other people's posts. Thanks again.

[MitchellMc]

Depending on the location and how saturated the soil is during rain events, a shed might stay quite dry, or the humidity could go through the roof, @bkjan. My father-in-law's shed, which he built from the ground up, stays exceptionally dry, whereas my prefabricated shed, especially at the moment with Sydney's weather, is extremely damp. Anything made of metal that I store inside rusts within months.

I suggest sealing any items that could be damaged by high humidity inside a water-proof container to which you've also added a moisture absorber.

The heat-treated pallets look quite good and should last a significant amount of time. Adding some shelving and keeping the items up off the ground will also help.

Your post is currently open to the entire community. Let me mention a few of our clever members, @TedBear, @Dave-1, @Nailbag, and @Noyade, to see if they have any thoughts.

Mitchell

[Dave-1 · Accepted solution]

Good Afternoon @bkjan 

Sound slike you are doing a bunch of research on sheds  

I do agree with @MitchellMc s thinkings, especially about moisture. Is there a reason why you want to insulate the tin walls? I havnt seen anyone really try and do this for the smaller sized sheds and am not confidant that it can be done easily.

I do like the idea of the household items being stored within sealed containers, on shelves or stacked off the floor. How big are the items you are thinking of storing?

With the pallet idea for the flooring, it sounds doable, tho Id be tempted to rest the pallet on pavers or something that cant absorb moisture just to help it no decompose. Anything you add tho is going to create a step and lesson the height inside the shed and generally the roofs are low. "Clunck" goes the head if you have to step up to a raised height floor. 

Id prefer a level base of soil a little higher then the surround area, then a thin layer of gravel, then pavers. Then storage shelves. You could put in a waterproofplastic sheet but as its a tin shed I really dont think it would be benificial.

Do you have a photo of the yard where you are wanting to build the shed? We may be able to come up with an alternative idea if we see the general area.

Dave

[TedBear]

Hi @bkjan , being an old fashioned type, I like to keep things as simple as possible, while still achieving the desired outcome. From the criteria that you describe, I would be doing the following:

Get the area leveled.

Lay plastic sheeting over the area.

Install the shed over the plastic and cut off any excess.

Add another layer of plastic inside the shed with edges sticking up inside.

Install slabs inside, over-lapping the frame bottom to weigh it down. Trim off excess plastic inside. The second layer is to keep any moisture from seeping in from outside, so that your slabs stay dry.

Install shelves, but ensure that you first line the backs and sides with thin board (eg masonite).

This will provide the insulation of your things from the walls, make it easier to keep things separated and it also stiffens the shelves.

If you are storing anything directly on the floor, make sure that you sit it on some strips of timber to keep a small air space between the item and the floor.

Essentially, you would be insulating each item or shelf separately, rather than trying to insulate the shed as a whole.

A concrete floor (on plastic) would be better, with the shed bolted to it and sealed at the floor, but the slabs may be cheaper... Maybe do some research to find out, as sometimes the difference in cost, when labour etc are included, can be less than you think.

I think adding pallets to the floor will only raise the floor level and the cost without offering much in the way of benefit.

[bkjan]

Thank you so much for your advice. --- What plastic sheeting do you recommend for the floor??. -- Yes, I'm going to store items on shelving (an extra cost of about $300). -- The shed can't go onto a concrete slab because I'm only renting my home unit. --- Went you say "lay slabs inside" do you mean concrete pavers? -- These are quite expensive about $14 each for 60cm x 60cm, I'd need about 20 of them = almost an extra $300 plus hiring someone to lay them. ---- Whereas the pallets are only $5 for 70 x 70cm = $60, I can install them myself. ---- However, if pavers are much better, I'll consider it (the weight is also an issue for me) -- I don't care about the height of the pallets, I'm short 5'2" and so the head room will be plenty.  --- great idea about lining the shelving with Masonite, I'll certainly do that.  ---- Thank you again, it's very kind of you to take the time to reply. From Jan

[bkjan]

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply. -- Fortunately, in Melbourne humidity is rarely and issue. -- When you say that your father-in-laws shed was build from the ground up, was it on a concrete slab?? - I can't use that because I'm in a rental unit. --- I'll definitely be using shelving. Thanks again from Jan